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Sailor to Shipwright is it possible?

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 15:14

Trying to track if I'm on the right trail of a person I'm looking for, for a friend. 1871 as a Sailor
1881 Ships joiner
1891 Shipwright

On his son's marriage cert it has his father's deceased but his occupation as a Ships Steward. Can anyone advise whether they think (like me) this is the same person.

Thank you in advance,
Lou

Malcolm

Malcolm Report 16 Apr 2013 15:36

As an ex mariner i'd say that it's more than likely that a seagoing carpenter would take up work in a shipyard and thus become a shipwright. I'd try to locate the death certificate for the "Ships Steward" to see if this agrees with the sons marriage certificate.

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 16 Apr 2013 16:36

care to give detail - name etc. in case we can help?

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 19:16

Hi Malcolm, Thanks very much for your input. It's very much appreciated. I am trying to locate his death. I have a few possibilities, but I shall let my friend know your thoughts and I'm sure she will appreciate your help.

Thanks again Malcolm.

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 19:51

Hi AnnCardiff,

Many thanks for the offer.

Not sure if you have access to the Scottish records, (this is the 1st time I've helped anyone with Scottish ancestry so am not familiar as to where to look, but this is what I've found on Ancestry.

I don't have much info but think I am on the right trail. His name is James Miller b 1883 a joiner, his father also named James born around 1850 - 1860. He had died by the time his son married in 1931 and on the marriage certificate it states his father was a Ships Steward.

James b 1883 married a Mary Hughes in 1931 he was a joiner his father also named James was a ships steward.

There are 3 generations of James' in this family.

I think this is James as a young man with his parents & siblings in 1871.
James h b 1825 Thanwick, Scotland Church Officer (1st Generation)
Leonora W Miller, Wife b 1826 East Kilbride,
James Miller son b 1852 Glasgow he’s a Sailor (2nd Generation) the 3rd is his son also named James b 1883 in Liverpool

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Regards, Lou





Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 16 Apr 2013 20:35

Was that a first marriage for James b. 1883?
I note that he was about 48 when he married Mary HUGHES.

Gwyn

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 20:47

Hi Gwyn, yes that's his first marriage and yes he was 48.

Thanks for replying,

Lou

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 16 Apr 2013 21:30

Ah.... I was going to suggest checking an earlier marriage document for him in the hope that it gave some clarity.....

Gwyn

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 21:31

I've double checked with my friend and she's confirmed he was a bachelor when he married :-(

Thanks anyway.

Lou

Stuart

Stuart Report 16 Apr 2013 21:51

1871 census with James Senior and JAmes second generation

1871 census transcription details for: 240, Elgin Place Chapel Congregational, Pitt Street, Barony

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 644
Folio: 48
Page: 7
Reg. District: Blythswood
Sub District:
Parish: Barony
Enum. District: 48
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 240, Elgin Place Chapel Congregational, Pitt Street, Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
MILLER, James Head Married M 46 1825 Church Officer Thornwood, Renfrewshire
MILLER, Leonora M Wife Married F 45 1826 Church Officer's Wife East Kilbride, Lanarkshire
MILLER, James Son Unmarried M 19 1852 Sailor Glasgow, Lanarkshire
MILLER, Archibald Son Unmarried M 14 1857 Joiner Apprentice Glasgow, Lanarkshire
MILLER, Charles H Son M 11 1860 Scholar Glasgow, Lanarkshire
MILLER, Walter S Son M 9 1862 Scholar Glasgow, Lanarkshire
MILLER, Thomas Son M 4 1867 Glasgow, Lanarkshire

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 21:59

Hi Stuart,

Yes that's them.

Lou

Stuart

Stuart Report 16 Apr 2013 22:18

Is this the 1881 you refer to? Nothing to say for sure this is the same person as 1871
1881 census transcription details for: 3, Corporation Rd, Throston

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 4905
Folio: 105
Page: 1
Reg. District: Hartlepool
Sub District: Hartlepool
Parish: Throston
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 3, Corporation Rd, Throston
County: Durham
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MUIRHEAD, John Head Married M 44 1837 Ship Model Maker & Builder Scotland
MUIRHEAD, Jane Wife Married F 45 1836 Scotland
MILLER, James Lodger Single M 28 1853 Ship Joiner Scotland
WOODS, Thomas Lodger Single M 27 1854 Ship Joiner Scotland

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 22:37

No - this is him

James Miller b 1852 Glasgow Ship Joiner
Sarah wife b 1852 Ireland
Barbara daughter b 1873 Partick, Lanarkshire
Robert son b 1876 Glasgow
James son b 1878 Partick, Lanarkshire
Catherine daugh b 1880 Partick, Lanarkshire

Andysmum

Andysmum Report 16 Apr 2013 22:42

A shipwright is a skilled craftsman and in Victorian times would be on board the wooden ships to carry out maintenance/repairs. He would have to be an experienced joiner/carpenter and a vital member of the crew.

I think it unlikely that a shipwright would become a steward and that the entries above are two different people or, possibly, an error on the marriage certificate?

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 22:43

Stuart, it's the Scottish census.


Name: James Miller
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Sarah Miller
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration number: 646/2
Registration district: Partick
Civil parish: Partick
Town: Partick
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 13 Anderson St
Occupation: Ship Joiner
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 30
Line: 12
Roll: cssct1881_257
Household Members:
Name Age
James Miller 29
Sarah Miller 29
Barbara Miller 8
Robert Miller 5
James Miller 3
Catherine Miller 10 Mo

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 22:48

Andysmum,

Thanks for your reply, that's thrown me, as someone else mentioned that it was more than likely.

Oh dear this family is really starting to confuse me now! :-(

But thanks again for your input. As I always say the more info you get the more you learn.
Thanks again,

Lou

Stuart

Stuart Report 16 Apr 2013 22:48

The James Miller you have for 1881 (above) would appear to have died by 1891 - this is the same family (with a son Alexander born 1883 Scotland, not a James in Liverpool)

1891 census transcription details for: Merkland Street, Govan

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 646
Folio: 11
Page: 2
Reg. District: Partick
Sub District:
Parish: Govan
Enum. District: 11
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Merkland Street, Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MILLER, Sarah Head Widow F 38 1853 Hardware Shopwoman Ireland
MILLER, Barbara Daughter Unmarried F 18 1873 Paralysed From Birth Partick, Lanarkshire
MILLER, Robert Son Unmarried M 15 1876 Plumbers App Glasgow, Lanarkshire
MILLER, James Son M 13 1878 Errand Boy Partick, Lanarkshire
MILLER, Catherine Daughter F 10 1881 ScholarPartick, Lanarkshire
MILLER, Alexander Son M 8 1883 Scholar Partick, Lanarkshire

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 22:53

Stuart,

sorry for this confusion, but this is the family I have, they now live in Liverpool. The James b 1883 married in Liverpool, so I think this is his family, I have no proof that he was born in Liverpool,

1891 Miller family >> living in Kirkdale, Liverpool

John ( should be James) b 1851 Scotland Shipwright ???? his name has changed
Sarah b 1853 Scotland
John son b 1876 Scotland Shipwright’s apprentice
Sarah daub 1877 Scotland
Emily dau b 1879 Liverpool
William son b 1881 Liverpool
James son b 1883 Liverpool
Donald son b 1884 Liverpool
George son b 1889 Liverpool
Robert son b 1890 Liverpool

They are really starting to confuse me now.

what do you think

Lou

Andysmum

Andysmum Report 16 Apr 2013 22:56

If you mean Malcolm's post, he said it was more than likely that a carpenter would become a shipwright, with which I agree.

Stuart

Stuart Report 16 Apr 2013 23:03

Your 1891 Liverpool Millers are there in 1881 SArah states married, so presume husband may be away
1881 census transcription details for: 38, Sumner St, Liverpool

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 3600
Folio: 83
Page: 23
Reg. District: Liverpool
Sub District: St Martin
Parish: Liverpool
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 38, Sumner St, Liverpool
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MILLER, Sarah Wife Head Married F 29 1852 Ship Carpenters Wife Scotland
MILLER, Jane Daughter Single F 7 1874 ScholarScotland
MILLER, John Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar Scotland
MILLER, Sarah Daughter Single F 4 1877 Scotland
MILLER, Emily Daughter Single F 2 1879 Liverpool, Lancashire
MILLER, William Son Single M 0 1881 Liverpool, Lancashire