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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 10 May 2013 14:48

Erin could'nt find anything for a Thomas Haley in Wills and Probate.


Christopher Report 10 May 2013 16:14

My goodness me but you have all been busy! I can now go back to at least great, great granddad when I have the time but for the time being I want to concentrate on William Henry Augustus's half brothers and sisters. I have the info about Kathleen (Kitty). I think Great uncle Fred was James Frederick, but what about Chazz (Charlie), Grace and Doffs (probably Dorothy)? Somebody (can't remember who has suggested possibles for Grace and Doffs but I can't see the connection.


Christopher Report 10 May 2013 16:19

Choccy, thank you very much. The reason why Grace, James (Fred), and Dorothy (Doffs) are so hard to find is that, as I have said they were put into care. You seem to have found out where.


Christopher Report 10 May 2013 17:27

I wonder where Kathleen (kitty) and my granddad (William Henry Augustus) were in 1911. They don't seem to have been with Grace and Doffs, or with Charlie and Fred.


Eringobragh1916 Report 10 May 2013 17:30

Christopher...Have no idea how you are going to sort the family out...I am trying to work on Elsie Rosetta Haley (Healy) South but what a family....!
It may be an idea to flag up on the thread what definate do have so as not "confuse" matters...some hope..!!


Eringobragh1916 Report 10 May 2013 17:37

Christopher...See MarieCeleste's post 10.27. 9 May for Kitty she is with Caroline BULL.

Wm H A (aged 12) is with his father....see Reggies Post 9 May.


Christopher Report 10 May 2013 18:48

Thanks Eringobrah, I got a bit lost. You have all been going further and further back and I am confused enough without going too far back just yet.

I Know that William Herbert married three times. By his first (Amy C Coombes) he produced William Henry Augustus (my maternal grandfather). By his second (Laura Dance) he produced 5 more, Frederick, Kathleen, Charles, Grace and Dorothy. These are the ones I am trying to fill in at the moment, before going further back.

You have found Grace and Doffs (in a "parentless") childrens' home, and Charles and Frederick in another.

I don't seem to have the same luck or experience as you when searching births, marriages and deaths. You all seem to get huge amounts of information. The only new information I get (if I am lucky) is a mother's maiden name. Are you searching different records?


MarieCeleste Report 10 May 2013 19:11

Christopher - we use a variety of sites so will produce different results. Just leave the older stuff on the backburner, you can come back to this thread any time you're ready to use that information.

The children are all accounted for in the 1911 so where do you want to go next with them?


Christopher Report 10 May 2013 19:32

I would like their marriages and deaths ideally. I know about Kathleen since she was my paternal grandmother. The others are a mystery but I know that Charles had a daughter Jennifer.


MarieCeleste Report 10 May 2013 20:17

Coming forward can be trickier than going back.

You'll need to look for possible marriages for them, problem is deciding which is the right one.

Knowing their exact date of birth is very helpful as, if they died after 1969 then the actual date of birth is shown on the death record. Get the death certificate to see informant and relationship and work back.

Obviously any snippets of family info that might provide locations, etc can be helpful.

Remember I said it can get expensive!


Christopher Report 10 May 2013 20:23

Yes, going back in time is far easier than coming forward. I've found Charlie's death record. Wolverhampton 1982. I went to his funeral. The first funeral I had ever attended. He was born on 10th October 1904. That's now 2 of the 5 filled in. Just Grace, Doffs (Dorothy) and Fred to go as far as deaths are concerned. Once you have one the rest seem easier to find.


MarieCeleste Report 10 May 2013 20:28

This is also where it's useful if there are any aunts, uncles, cousins who you can ask for info. (But bear in mind they can't always be 100% reliable)


Christopher Report 10 May 2013 21:56

Yes, I'd love to ask uncles and aunts questions. Trouble is they're all dead except for two, both of whom are oly related by marriage, so probably won't know anything useful. My uncle Eric (Arthur Eric) went a long way back in my father's tree, but I am looking at my mother's tree. Women are far more difficult to find than men because they changed their name when they married. How do you look up the death record of a women, when you don't know who they married?


Eringobragh1916 Report 10 May 2013 22:26

Christopher...Thats a major problem and takes lots of detective work...sometimes you can strike lucky if she had an unusual christian name however you need to be sure she did marry... if she did... ask yourself how you know that..? Look for clues ....she also may have married twice...there are all manner of issues with the female side. First find the ? marriage then look for a death.

Just a note for ref. If you look at the Haley Census (Portsmouth 1911) posted by MarieCeleste there is a male child "Dick" his name was actually Victor..dont know if it is a mistranscription or he was known as Dick but he was Baptised "Victor" October 9th. 1887.


Christopher Report 10 May 2013 22:56

OK. Following all the things you have found I have decided to go back as far as I can and fill in the details later.

William Henry Augustus Porter was the son of William Herbert Porter. His father was William Butcher Porter. His father, born 1816 was George Porter, but in the 1841 census he (William Butcher) seemed to be living in a house with 24 other people.


Eringobragh1916 Report 10 May 2013 23:00

Christopher...I dont have access to 1841 to check but I think the George and Louisa Porter parents of a Wm. were just a ??.....Let me have a check.

Yes parents Louisa and George

Name: William Butcher Porter
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 05 May 1839
Birth Date: 13 Apr 1839
Father's Name: George Porter
Mother's Name: Louisa

Possible marriage only 1 with a Louisa....

Name: George Porter
Spouse's Name: Louisa Thompson
Event Date: 13 Mar 1836
Event Place: Saint Leonards,Shoreditch,London,England


Christopher Report 11 May 2013 11:02

Right, time to pin down a few more details of those I know. I'm looking for a marriage for William Butcher Porter, 1839 - 1908, the father of William Herbert, the one who caused all the trouble by marrying three times. In fact any details about him would be nice. I know he had two brothers, George and Henry.


Christopher Report 11 May 2013 11:41

This is interesting. I have just searched the freebmd service for the first time. It shows 2 people who might be the same. William Butcher Porter and William Butche Porter, St Luke, 1b, 939.Can anybody explain this? I now have two possible suspects for his wife. Rebbeca or Eliza. Starting another search. This is fun!


MarieCeleste Report 11 May 2013 13:21

Christopher, you mean this record?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1864
Hind Eliza St Luke 1b 939
Lazarus Rebecca St Luke 1b 939
Porter William Butche St Luke 1b 939
Porter William Butcher St Luke 1b 939
Smith Richard Kimber Clexander St Luke 1b 939

All it means is he's been entered twice, once incorrectly.

There's no parish record on Ancestry for this one, unfortunately. To check who married who find the men on the next census (1871) and see who is with who.

EDIT: I think Eringobragh has posted census on page 3.


Eringobragh1916 Report 11 May 2013 13:34

Christopher...If you have a look back on to page 3 9th May 16.10 you will see 1881 Census shows wife being Eliz. I cross matched the " visitor"details and showed it was her sister "Ruth" Goodman nee Hind.