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naturalization

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 31 May 2013 22:21

registration as an alien ; well he was born in 1871 in jacobstadt
his profession was a debt collector .
he came to GB in 1891 hence living off means on census he'd only just arrived
he had to re-register in 1819 + 1820 lived in various towns in wales in those years and .......There is a PHOTO .... I highly recommend anyone with foreign ancestors in 1914 to see if there is an alien registration form for them



MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 31 May 2013 19:09

That's good news Alisoun. Do post the details when you have them, we may not be able to find anything further, but we can try.

Flip

Flip Report 31 May 2013 18:28

Just catching up after a week at work. That is good news Alisoun, gives your mother something of her past. :-) - finally!

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 29 May 2013 22:48

Pam thanks for your wonderful tip ....guess what galamorgan records say the document has his date + place of birth and ......a photo . mum will be able to see what her Grandfather looked like ..she also got a reply from the Russian site .and the Bridgend registered death looks th emost likely now ...so he remained single + childless ;
thanks everyone .

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 24 May 2013 09:59

All go on this 1 ,Glamorgan has found his alien rgistration letter and death place ....and mum answered a link I sent her to a Rusisi an site
replied to a simple request in English ;Hoping to sucesses over coffee and pics from Ronnie Barker's very funny book "Gentleman's Relish " I'm reading a few pages a day ;see thread " 1906 court cases" on geneology chat thread Alisoun and Brigid

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 14 May 2013 09:42

the affiliation order only gives his full name as george jacob fellman ;wirral archives told me that the Borough road address in Birkenhead had been helpful in finding the document so I've emailed to ask if they have a transcript of the case or any more information .
Yes we can eliminate the George in scotland as being connected to cheetham George if he was married in 1895 in Russia he couldn't have been single in Cheetham in 1891 .

The Jacob Fellman in 1901 isn't right as George Jacob works at 126 Borough Road Birkenhead in1900 as a tailor and general dealer in Gore's Trade directory
and lives at 82 borough Road in 1901 census .

I ruled out that Jacob as being the one who died in 1922 in West Derby aged 52.
But I could be wrong , lets see if alien registration or naturalisation records in glamorgan turn up anything .

ps Respect to MC for discreet wording regarding the Dundee newspaper report ; if this is the same George Jacob he was a travelling salesman and had been in Derby 3 weeks before .There was a sentence "belongs to Jersey" which we wondered about
coulld it be a typset error and originally been "belongs to Jewery" I've seen some court cases of the time where they included this sort of comment .

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 14 May 2013 07:39

Sorry - was nearly falling asleep when I typed last night and didn't make things clear.

The writing on the images wasn't too clear but the gist of it is that on the death record of the George Feldman it looks like his wife's name is Bertha Babok. On the birth of their son Louis it looks like her name is Bertha Zelok, and that they were married 1895 in Russia.

What intrigues me about this is the occupation of clothier on the 1911, which implies drapery/tailoring. By the time he died in 1925 he seems to have moved into jute and sack manufacturing.

Looks like the Scottish 1911 wasn't completed by the householder the way English ones were, would have been useful to see who completed it.

Alisoun - what info was given about him on the affiliation order? Does it give any personal info like occupation, marital status, etc?

Flip

Flip Report 14 May 2013 05:52

MC - did you mean that George/Bertha married in Russia in 1895?

If so, the George found in 1891 Cheetham can't be the same guy - unless he went back - although the age ties in better than with the one in Wales in 1911,

Flip

Flip Report 14 May 2013 05:28

What about this birth for Gertrude, Lancs BMD has transcribed name as Feldman, unfortunatley no mmn transcribed. This in freebmd version:

Births Dec 1897 (>99%)
Feldmon Gertrude Manchester 8d 238

There's a Jacob Feldman in Cheetham 1901, he's a wallpaper packer, married according to the image. Again age is out, but wonder?

Jacob Fellman
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Russia
Civil parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Cheetham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 293
Piece: 3767
Folio: 207
Page Number: 59
Household Members:
Name Age
Myer Gilbert 26
Rebecca Gilbert 25
Rachel Gilbert 3
Mathew Gilbert 1
Jacob Fellman 26

No idea if this is relevant though.

Flip

Flip Report 14 May 2013 04:59

Well MC, that throws the cat amongst the pigeons! Is there any sign of another George Fellman/Feldman in 1901, we now have 2 of them in 1911 but only 1 in 1901.

Confused - you say you have found Louis birth, and brother and married in 1895? Not sure what you mean, who was married in 1895 in Russia?

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 13 May 2013 23:57

Thanks for looking but you've now raised another doubt . How do I know that the George Jacob Fellman in 1901 census in Birkenhead is the same as the George Fellman with his mother in Cheetham in 1901 ; Is this another of my mothers assumptions because they both say born in Russia and a lot of Russian Jews did go to Cheetham initial then to Liverpool often with view to going on to USA.?
maybe the Cheetham George did go to Scotland and get married around 1896 it's not too far fetched for his mother's name Mandel to be anglicised to Mary .
Could it be a separate person from George Jacob who fathered my grandma .

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 13 May 2013 22:45

Did more digging - the above man died 1925.

Wife was Bertha Babok.

Parents (both deceased) Mordekai Feldman and Mary ms Bredman.

So I guess that rules out Mendel as a parent so perhaps a very big coincidence?

EDIT: Found Louis birth, *mother was surname Zelok. They were married 1895 in Theodosia, Russia.

Oh well, will leave if just to eliminate.

*NOTE: Have amended typo where I'd put bother instead of mother.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 13 May 2013 22:39

Alisoun mentioned the 1906 Dundee incident about a George Jacob Fellman who was selling postcards in Dundee, found in a newspaper article while looking for something else. Described as a "well dressed young man" and the text suggests he may have been some sort of commercial traveller.

Have to confess this has been niggling at me so I poked around.

On the Scottish 1911 census in Dundee there is a George FelDman who was 42 years old, born in Russia and a clothier.

BUT - this one was allegedly married for 15 years and had 5 children. This is the family:

George Feldman 42 Clothier (own account) born Russia
Bertha Feldman 39 born Russia
Gertrude 14 born England
Moses 12 born Glasgow
Louis 11 born Dundee
Harry 9 born Dundee
John 7 born Dundee

However, I can't find Bertha or the elder 3 children on 1901 census, or an english birth for Gertrude.

Opinions?
:-S

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 13 May 2013 21:46

I registered on the raduratski site but the searches were all in Russian script so I couldn't decipher names .I look forward to seeing the 1911 census .

Flip

Flip Report 13 May 2013 17:53

OK. image en route check your inbox - we were just having dinner.

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 13 May 2013 17:11

My mother came to the same conclusions as Pam about the Jewish connections it explains why we don't find George Jacob and Mandel in1881 . Although I'm learning not to follow all her assumptions .
I hope to find a link with this Geo J 1911 census and Dundee Courrrier newspaper 1906
and/or George Fellman 1924 death
Today I looked at trade directories for 1894 and 1896 but found no trace of any Fellman .I will now try the sites you suggested .
Thanks for your offer Flip I don't have access to the census unless i go to the library so I'd be grateful of the image on PM

Flip

Flip Report 13 May 2013 16:43

Hi Pam. I wasn't questioning your post, and I agree, there may be Jewish connections here. Just wondered if I'd missed something - the other post was rather lengthy and complicated - think I lost it half way through.

Thanks Ann for checking the image, glad you agree just hope we are right - I believe a name ending in stadt was a city, so that rules out towns and villages.

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 13 May 2013 16:17

I agree the 1911 image says Jacobstadt so I have amended my post above where I posted the 1911 details

Alemap

Alemap Report 13 May 2013 16:10

I agree, not all European immigrants were Jewish. The reason I said try the Jewish website is.
1. George and Mendal arrived between 1881 and 1891. The Jewish community in Europe were subjected to the pogroms at this time and many escaped to Britain.
2. On 1891 census they are in Cheetham close to the Jewish community.
3. The names Jacob and Mendel suggest they are possibly Jewish.

For these reasons I suggested Alisoun try the Jewish website.
I am not saying George Jacob and Mandal were Jewish, just that it is a possibility.

The alien registration was for anyone not born in Great Britain and Ireland.
.

Flip

Flip Report 13 May 2013 15:05

How do we know there is Jewish ancestry here please, not all European immigrants were Jewish, have I missed something?