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is this comon

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Sally Report 1 Jun 2013 13:51

my gt nana was never married but on her daughters baptisam a father has been named

I have the birth cert and no father named also my nana uses the same maiden name

sally w


jax Report 1 Jun 2013 13:56

I have not seen my gt uncles birth cert but he was registed in his mothers maiden name.

His mother married my gt grandfather 9 months later, then had him baptised after the marriage (using her maiden name) naming someone with the same surname as her??? I doubt whether this person was the father...just looked better than having a completly different surname I guess


MarieCeleste Report 1 Jun 2013 14:00

Hi Sally, I couldn't say how common this actually was but I have also seen a few similar situations.

This link explains the inclusion (or not) of father's names on birth certificates.

It was sometimes down to the interpretation of the registrar.

If a man acknowledged paternity and it was known in the parish then he may well be named on the baptism.

I also saw a case where a married woman had two sons by her lover. Her husband was named as the father on the birth certificates but the real father was named on the baptisms.


Sally Report 1 Jun 2013 14:16

thankyou my gt nana was never marrid but had four children naughty girl :-D

sally w <3


GenealogyResearchAssistance Report 1 Jun 2013 14:22

I have an ancestor who was born out of wedlock and baptised in his mother's name with his father named as the priest made a comment on who he was.

His parents later married and he was raised with his father's name however he was never reregistered.


CupCakes Report 1 Jun 2013 14:29

From my experience many baptism records have the name of a father even if the parents were not married.

Seems the church took a higher priorty - fear of God and all that - secrets more difficult

I've been lucky with the London bapt records and the Lancs ones and traced people who I would otherwise never have been put in place.


jax Report 1 Jun 2013 14:34

This is one of the things I have wondered about this gt uncle....why was he baptised after his mother married, naming someone as a father who did not exist...but he was bought up with my gt grandfathers name?

I do not think my 2nd cousin (grandaughter of this man) was impressed when I told her what I had found after she had spent a long time tracing back that side of the family :-D

What I cannot understand is, although she has put this birth and baptism on her tree....she states it might be him??? of course it is him the address on the baptism is the same as the marriage....if he was my grandfather I would purchase the birth cert just to see if a father is named at all (doubt it though)


GenealogyResearchAssistance Report 1 Jun 2013 14:41

I too would buy the cert Jax.

I also have instances where there is no father named on a baptism.

I find with parish records it is very much hit and miss as to how much information is in them. The information can vary immensely from church to church even in the same area.

I do have a blog on parish records. If anyone wishes to read it send me a pm and I'll forward you a link :-)


Sally Report 1 Jun 2013 15:27

thankyou for your replys

the man named gave the same surname as my gt nana but as far as I can see there is not any one of that name in the family

just to add my nana was born 1873

sally w <3


Reggie Report 1 Jun 2013 16:15

If the surname for the 'father' on the baptism was the same as the MMN, he was probably invented to placate the vicar


jax Report 1 Jun 2013 17:01

I think in my case he was invented Reggie.....if he had the same name as one of her brothers or father, then I would be worried....As I am not a direct decendant, I am not going to purchase the cert if his grandaughter cannot be bothered


KempinaPartyhat Report 1 Jun 2013 17:05

My great granny never married but put her "new married" name on her childrens birth cert togethre with their fathers !!!!

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 1 Jun 2013 17:07

illegitimacy was a stigma and often to the illegitimate child who was the innocent party

When they married they would often invent a father who was deceased or name a family male member like a grandads name so as not to be looked down on by the priest.

For instance my paternal grans sister had an illegitimate child in 1911 . when that child married she named her grandfather as her dad most likely cos she didn't want anyone to know she didnt have a named father OR possible her grandparent brought her up so she thought she was their daughter not a grandaughter.

Lots of face saving went on I,m afraid especially when dealing with church records cos some priests were very strict and narrow with what they perceived as right and wrong.


+++DetEcTive+++ Report 1 Jun 2013 18:06

One of my illegitimate people was born in another area but baptised in his mother’s local church when she returned to the family home.

She gives her own father’s name as the father of the child. I’m hoping that the priest asked “Father’s name?” which she assumed to mean her own.



Cynthia Report 1 Jun 2013 20:30

.........and these days, we get a surprise when, on the Baptism form, the mother and father's names are the same :-D :-D :-D :-D


Jonesey Report 1 Jun 2013 22:07

If you think that tracing your ancestors is difficult now imagine what it may be like for our descendants in 100 years time.

When looking for their ancestors born c2013 they will find that about 53% were born to unmarried parents. That their siblings were probably only half siblings. That their parents may have each have been born in a different country or even a different continent from one another and from where the child was born. They may even have to look at bank card or store card records rather than census records to discover ages, addresses and occupations ect.

Mind you this whole genealogy business could be made much simpler if like pets each newborn had a microchip containing their pedigree inserted just under the skin on their left shoulder blade. Then it would be a case of "Pass the microchip reader I want to know who Great Uncle Albert's dad really was." :-D


Cynthia Report 1 Jun 2013 22:24

Nice one Jonesey :-D

Add to all that, the fact that it's becoming fashionable to change your surname to something 'different', and future genealogists will really be up the proverbial Swanee.

A couple of months ago, I saw an item on TV where a couple had legally changed their name to Mr. and Mrs PUFFIN. Can you credit it??? :-S :-S


Sally Report 1 Jun 2013 22:29

thankyou all

I guess it was mostly due to how frit of the church you were

jonesey what a good thing that would be

sally w <3


Kense Report 2 Jun 2013 12:26

Most of the 19th century baptism records in parish registers that I have seen, just have the mother's name where illegitimacy is involved.

The others usually have baseborn or illegitimate child of. Very rarely is there any more comment, but it is always worth checking the original image.