Genealogy Chat

Hi, Please can anyone help me to trace my great grandmother's family and origins. She was born on 24 April in about 1880. She married William Ambrose Gaffney. They travelled to Cape Town, South Africa on 22 June 1907 with my grandmother Ellen Winifred Gaffney (who was apparently born in Dublin, Ireland on 13 October 1905) on the Dunluce Castle. I cannot find any "free" information on the Barendilla family. Many thanks.

Several trees on Ancestry says that she was born 24 Apr 1880 and died 13 Jan 1924.

The only sources they quote is another tree on Ancestry which appears to be your own.

You can search the 1901 (and 1911) Irish census for free on
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/search-the-1901-and-1911-census-of-ireland

Could Frances have her roots in Italy? One result on Ancestry is an earlier death - not sure if it is in Italian or Latin (added - probably Italian)

Como e Lecco, Lombardia, Italia: Registri di stato civile, 1866-1936 Como and Lecco, Lombardy, Italy, Civil Registration Records, 1866-1936 about Francesca Barindelli
Name: Francesca Barindelli
Birth Year: abt 1876
Father: Ambrogio
Mother: Teresa Barindelli
Record Type: Decesso
Date: 24 nov 1876
City: Esino Inferiore
County: Como
Country: Italia (Italy)

Thanks very much for trying, I really do appreciate the help. I only know that she died when my gran was very young (even though my tree shows my gran as being 19 in 1924), so I'm not even sure if her DOD on my tree is correct as this info was given to my by a family member who doesn't have real proof, only a diary entry. My Dad is now 84 and his memory is not good, so much so that he can't even remember what his grandmother's name was. But thank you so much for trying as this surname doesn't seem to be a very well known one at all.

Although you were looking for 'free' sources, have you been able to track down her SA death certificate? That might give her declared age (which could be wrong!) at death.

As she is a direct ancestor, the outlay might be worth it.....have a look down the back of the sofa for loose change :-D

Also how about a cemetery record? Ask your father again - his subconscious might have been churning away in the back ground. The elderly can often recall events/facts from their childhood better than what they had for breakfast.

From where did they travel when they moved to South Africa?

Is the date you quote the date of their arrival in SA?


EDIT

They boarded at Southampton on 22 June, ....and there were TWO daughters with them.........

aged 1....initials E W

and . aged 3, initials E M

Mrs Gaffney was aged 31, which would make her birth c1876


GAFFNEY 1876 F 1907 Southampton South Africa Cape
GAFFNEY E M 1904 F 1907 Southampton South Africa Cape
GAFFNEY E W 1906 F 1907 Southampton South Africa Cape
GAFFNEY W A 1877 M 1907 Southampton South Africa Cape

There are a couple of entries for the name Barendilla on

www.familysearch.org

Click on Search at the top and put name into box

Thanks so much, I've tried the Irish route that you gave me, but wasn't successful with that. I'll try the familysearch one, thanks. Unfortunately Dad sys his mom never spoke about the grandmother as my gran was too young to remember much about her. No one really knows when she died, where she was buried or anything helpful, which is why I've struggled for the last 11 years just to find out her name. Maybe in a few more years I'll find out some more about her, which would be great. Thanks again.

What evidence do you have for Ellen's birth? No birth for that name showing in Ireland

The info re Barendilla on familysearch is for a male born in South Africa in 1888.............plus another of unknown gender who immigrated into the US on the same ship in 1947

Perhaps Frances was also South African.............and that is the reason for the return

Name: Rosario Edmund Barendilla
Event Type: Draft Registration
Event Date: 1942
Event Place: Warrenton, Fauquier, Virginia
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 24 Nov 1888
Affiliate Publication Title: World War II Draft Cards (4th Registration) for the State of Virginia
Affiliate Publication Number:
Affiliate ARC Identifier: 563732
GS Film number: 2369695
Digital Folder Number: 004135078
Image Number: 01994

Name: Rosario E Barendilla
Event Type: Immigration
Event Date: 1927
Event Place: New York, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 38
Birthplace: South Africa
Ship Name: Majestic
Birth Year (Estimated): 1889
Affiliate Publication Title: Passenger and Crew Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, New York, 1897-1957.
Affiliate Publication Number: T715
Affiliate Film Number: 4052
GS Film number: 1755790
Digital Folder Number: 004859826
Image Number: 00572


Name: Rosario Edward Barendilla
Event Type: Immigration
Event Date: 1937
Event Place: New York, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 48
Birthplace: Union Of South Africa
Ship Name: Rex
Birth Year (Estimated): 1889
Affiliate Publication Title: Passenger and Crew Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, New York, 1897-1957.
Affiliate Publication Number: T715
Affiliate Film Number: 6019
GS Film number: 1757757
Digital Folder Number: 004875814
Image Number: 00885

To answer Potty's question - we were always told that Ellen Winifred Gaffney (my gran) was born in Dublin, Ireland in 1905. Then her sister Bridgett's son told us that all the girls were born in Salt River, Cape Town, South Africa. Then I received a copy of my dad's half brother, Edwin George Holton's (father Cecil George Holton was my gran's 1st husband he died in 1927), birth certificate and it states that their mother was born in Dublin, Ireland. So the search once again headed off into the "Irish direction". Once again thanks to all involved for their kind assistance and feedback, it's so nice to know there are such helpful people out there when some of us are hitting one brick wall after the other.Thanks :-D

I wouldn't be surprised if Frances and at least one of the girls were born in South Africa.
Note that these are Incoming......
All UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Mrs W A Gaffney
30 abt 1877 9 May 1907 Durban, South Africa Southampton, England
Mr W A Gaffney
27 abt 1880 9 May 1907 Durban, South Africa Southampton, England
Miss E M Gaffney
3 abt 1904 9 May 1907 Durban, South Africa Southampton, England
Miss E W Gaffney
1 abt 1906 9 May 1907 Durban, South Africa
Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date: 9 May 1907
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Durban
[Cape Town]
Ship Name: Galeka
...........

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

Try searching on the RSA
All Archives Repositories and National Registers of non-public records


Maureen

According to this link Frances ELIZABETH Gaffney's estate papers were published 1924
http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?2014011722494442626563&DN=00000017

On the 1907 incoming passenger lists posted above Mrs Gaffney and the two daughters are listed as being born "Cape Colony", on the outgoing they're all listed as Irish!

If your grandmother was young when her mother died, is there a possibility that Frances did not die then, but just went off with another man?

This is idle speculation but could explain a lot of uncertainty about dates.

I notice the link I posted above times out, these are the results from it:

Document 16 of 53
DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 13/1/5053
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 2080
PART 1
DESCRIPTION GAFFNEY, FRANCES ELIZABETH. LIQUIDATION AND DISTRIBUTION ACCOUNT. FIRST ACCOUNT.
STARTING 19240000
ENDING 19240000


Document 17 of 53
DEPOT KAB
SOURCE MOOC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 6/9/2569
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 3424
PART 1
DESCRIPTION GAFFNEY, FRANCES ELIZABETH. ESTATE PAPERS.
STARTING 19240000
ENDING 19240000

Would be worth ordering those papers.

ADDED: It's not a very user friendly site and doesn't make it clear how to order but these contact details may help:

National Archives and Records Service of South Africa, Head Office

The National Archivist
Postal address: Private Bag X236, PRETORIA 0001
Street address: 24 Hamilton Street, Arcadia, PRETORIA
Tel: (012) 441 3200 Fax: (012) 323 5287
Fax to e-mail: 086 529 6416
E-mail: [email protected]