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Not Wanted James Colvill

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Dame*Shelly*(

Dame*Shelly*("\(*o*)/") Report 18 Feb 2014 23:50

Ok this child was posted on another thread
but nothink to do with the thread

so out of interest and because im soft i have sent off for the birth and death cert
and will see if i can build a little tree for the poor mite

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1331009

Births Mar 1861 (>99%)
COLVILL Not Wanted James Lambeth 1d 312
========================
Deaths Jun 1861 (>99%)
Colvill Not Wanted James St George S 1d 111


Sylvia

Sylvia Report 18 Feb 2014 23:58

DameShelly
I had a feeling you would. I was very tempted myself. I feel so sorry for the little love, even told hubby about him today. God bless him.

jax

jax Report 19 Feb 2014 00:01

??


1861 England Census
about James Colvill
Name:
James Colvill
Age:
3/12
Estimated birth year:
1861

Relation:
Son
Mother's name:
Eliza Colvill
Gender:
Male
Where born:
Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil Parish:
Southwark St George the Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish:
St George the Martyr
County/Island:
Surrey
Country:
England
Registration district:
St George Southwark

Sub-registration district:
Borough Road

Eliza Colvill 30
George Colvill 4
Eliza Colvill 6
Alfred Colvill 8
James Colvill 3/12
Samuel Davy 62


KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Feb 2014 00:03

That is so sad!!

If "Not Wanted" had only been on one record I would have thought it had been mistranscribed but as it's on the birth and death record I suppose it must be correct.

I'd be interested to know who his mother was when you get the birth certificate.

EDIT - I couldn't find him in the 1861 census on Findmypast.

Kath. x

jax

jax Report 19 Feb 2014 00:09

I couldn't see it on FMP either..

If him, which looks like it is.... his parents marriage


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Eliza Star
Name:
Eliza Star
Spouse Name:
Alfred Benjamin Colvill
Record Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
30 Mar 1852
Parish:
Camberwell St Giles
Borough:
Southwark
Father Name:
Benjamin Star
Spouse Father:
George Colvill
Register Type:
Parish Register

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Feb 2014 00:24

If the above are his parents then this looks like his father in the 1851 census:-

1851 census transcription details for: 5, Nelsons Place, Saint Mary Newington, Lambeth

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1567
Folio: 870
Page: 10
Reg. District: Newington
Sub District: Saint Peter Walworth
Parish: Saint Mary Newington
Enum. District: 30
Ecclesiastical District: Saint Peter Walworth
City/Municipal Borough: Lambeth

Address: 5, Nelsons Place, Saint Mary Newington, Lambeth
County: Surrey

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

COLVILL, George Head Married M 76 1775 Carpenter
Bermondsey, Surrey
COLVILL, Mary Ann Wife Married F 65 1786
Thornborough, Gloucestershire
COLVILL, William Thos Son Unmarried M 41 1810 Painter
Lewisham, Kent
COLVILL, Alfred B Son Unmarried M 29 1822 Tin Plate Worker
Newington, Surrey<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Feb 2014 00:28

This could possibly be his mother in the 1851 census with her mother and step-father:-

1851 census transcription details for: 18, North Street, Saint Mary Newington, Lambeth

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1567
Folio: 890
Page: 51
Reg. District: Newington
Sub District: Saint Peter Walworth
Parish: Saint Mary Newington
Enum. District: 30
Ecclesiastical District: Saint Peter Walworth
City/Municipal Borough: Lambeth

Address: 18, North Street, Saint Mary Newington, Lambeth
County: Surrey

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

HAWTIN, George Head Married M 47 1804 Smith And Farrier
Newington, Surrey
HAWTIN, Jane Wife Married F 40 1811 Brush Maker
Newington, Surrey
STAR, Eliza Daughter In Law Unmarried F 20 1831 Brush Maker
Newington, Surrey<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
STAR, William Son In Law Unmarried M 19 1832 Hawker
Newington, Surrey
HAWTIN, Margaret Daughter F 7 1844
Newington, Surrey
HAWTIN, Jane Daughter F 2 1849
Newington, Surrey
GILES, Henry Workman M 22 1829 Workman A Smith
Newington, Surrey
STADMAN, Ann Servant F 14 1837
Newington, Surrey

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Feb 2014 00:29

Eliza Star's mother's second marriage? :-


Name: HAWTIN, George
Registration district: Lambeth
County: London
Year of registration: 1839
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 4
Page no: 258

MarriageFinder: George Hawtin married one of the following people:

NICHOLS, Hannah
STAR, Jane<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
JOHNSON, Eliza
NEWMAN, Sarah
WITHAM, John
BRYAN, John Thomas
LEMON, Benjamin

Kath. x

jax

jax Report 19 Feb 2014 00:36

Although Eliza is down as married (Engineers wife) wouldnt be surprised if her husband had done a runner at some point....maybe that's why he was not wanted?

could be the father leaving the country


Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839–1923
about Alfred Colvill
Name:
Alfred Colvill
Estimated birth year:
abt 1822
Age:
39
Arrival Date:
6 May 1861
Arrival Port:
Melbourne, Australia
Departure Port:
London
Ship:
Orwell
Nationality:
English

Don't know how long it took to get to Oz back then but I would imagine he left before the census was taken on the 7th April

His birth


England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
about Alfred Benjamin Colvill
Name:
Alfred Benjamin Colvill
Gender:
Male
Birth Date:
11 Dec 1821
Baptism Date:
22 Sep 1822
Baptism Place:
Saint Saviour,Southwark,Surrey,England
Father:
George Colvill
Mother:
Mary Ann
FHL Film Number:
307710, 307711, 307712

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 19 Feb 2014 08:27

1861 (as on FMP)
COLWILL, Eliza Head Married F 30 1831 Engineers Wife
Southwark, Surrey
COLWILL, George Son M 4 1857 Scholar
Newington, Surrey
COLWILL, Eliza Daughter F 6 1855 Scholar
Newington, Surrey
COLWILL, Alfred Son M 8 1853 Scholar
Newington, Surrey
COLWILL, James Son M 0 (3M) 1861
Lambeth, Surrey
Piece: 331
Folio: 127
Page: 24
Registration District: St George Southwark
Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
Municipal Borough: Southwark
Address: 44, Union Street, St George The Martyr, Southwark
County: London, Surrey

Chris :)

Renes

Renes Report 19 Feb 2014 10:02



Is it at all possible ... That the " not wanted "
was referring to a middle name -

or is it wishful thinking on my part

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Feb 2014 10:35

I think that if "Not Wanted" was referring to a middle name then it would probably only appear on the birth record. As it's on the death record as well.............who knows!!

Kath. x

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 19 Feb 2014 12:44

Picture the scene –

Mum (or Dad) goes to register the birth.
“What is his name?
“We haven’t really thought about it. He's not wanted. Errr….James.”

Alternatively –
“James. He's not wanted”

Until records of him were found on Census, a thought did surface that he might have been a foundling.

Thelma

Thelma Report 19 Feb 2014 13:09

He is in a tree on Ancestry/Mundia.

Renes

Renes Report 19 Feb 2014 13:24



Ah well

Likely to be wishful thinking on my part then :-\

wisechild

wisechild Report 19 Feb 2014 15:46

Maybe the registrar wasn´t as bright as he might have been & having asked for a 2nd Christian name, he mistook the parents response of "not wanted" & entered it in the records, making it the poor chap´s legal name & he was stuck with it for the rest of his life.
If it was on his birth cert, which is a legal document, it would also be on his death cert (& probably his marriage cert too)

jax

jax Report 19 Feb 2014 15:55

He died at a few months old anyway.....It wasn't compulsary to register a birth back then and it wasn't compulsory to give the correct names when marrying.....not sure whether birth cert would need to be shown when registering a death?....as I said the parents did not have to register his birth if they didn't want to

As it looked like Eliza would of registered his death.....maybe she just handed over the birth cert for the details as she could not write herself?

Dame*Shelly*(

Dame*Shelly*("\(*o*)/") Report 19 Feb 2014 16:22

thank you all for your intreast

i will let you all no the out come when the certs get here
hopefully by the end of next week

edit.... im now wondering how he died

Flip

Flip Report 19 Feb 2014 19:13

My thought exactly, and if "not wanted" was true how he lived. it's really sad.

Is this something someone came across a while ago, I seem to remember another thread with "not wanted" as a Christian name?

ADDED, sorry didn't read your OP very well I realise this came from another thread.

Dame*Shelly*(

Dame*Shelly*("\(*o*)/") Report 26 Feb 2014 22:31

Im still waiting for the certs to come and as they never came today
hoping they will come in tomorrow post

my post man comes around 11am