Genealogy Chat

Ok, I'm hoping somebody is looking for something to do. I have segs on my eyes looking. Michael Rush born 1799/1800 Kilcoo Co down married Margaret King in Liverpool. They had a number of children Catherine 1834 and Felix 1840, when ever I have looked there has always been a John Rush nearby, either a close neighbour
Witness at a wedding or a godparent. I wonder if this was his brother? He also married his wife's sister Jane King in Liverpool.
I would love somebody with a fresh pair of eyes to have a look if you have time, please I really would appreciate. It. Tyvm

This is the family in1851
Michael Rush Head Married Male 49 1802 Labourer Ireland Transcription
Margaret Rush Wife Married Female 42 1809 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
Catherine Rush Daughter Unmarried Female 17 1834 Servant Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Transcription
John Rush Son Unmarried Male 15 1836 Scholar Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Transcription
Felix Rush Son Unmarried Male 11 1840 Scholar Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Transcription
Michael Rush Son Unmarried Male 9 1842 Scholar Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Transcription
Margaret Rush Daughter Unmarried Female 2 1849 - Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Transcription
Alice Rush Daughter Unmarried Female 0 1851 - Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England

John Rush was born in Ireland in 1807 . I think John and Michael were brothers
This is then in 1851 census

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Rush Head Married Male 44 1807 Labourer Ireland Transcription
Jane Rush Wife Married Female 44 1807 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
Francis Rush Son Unmarried Male 9 1842 Scholar Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Transcription
William Rush Son Unmarried Male 7 1844 Scholar Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Transcription
Hugh Rush Son Unmarried Male 5 1846 Scholar Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Transcription
Alice Rush Daughter Unmarried Female 2 1849 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
Alice Watkin Sister In Law Widow Female 61 1790 Formerly House Keeper Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
John Matthew Step Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Smith Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Thank you both so much. Yes this is them ok.

Sorry Sylvia

John Rush did not marry until 1839, which was after registration began

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973

Name: John Rush
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 24 Jun 1839
Marriage Place: St. Patrick, Park Place, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Spouse: Jane King
FHL Film Number: 396378
Reference ID: Vol/2/1


Marriages Jun 1839 (>99%)

King Jane Wt.Derby 20 689
RUSH John Wt. Derby 20 689


If you buy his marriage certificate, it should give you the name of his father.

You could then use that as a basis for attempting to find baptisms in Ireland which could prove whether they are or are not brothers.


It does seem likely ......... although they could be cousins

I see that there is a step-son on that 1851 Census ...... which indicates that the marriage to John Rush was Jane's 2nd marriage


Do you have the following information??

Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911

Name: John Matthews
Baptism Date: 8 Jun 1832
Parish: Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St Peter' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: David Matthews
Mother: Jane Matthews
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number: Drl/2/292

Address:- Gibraltar Row
Father occupation:- Cooper


Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936

Name: Jane King
Gender: Female
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Apr 1831
Parish: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Spouse: David Matthews
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

from image:-
David's occupation:- Cooper


There were also 2 other children

Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911

Name: Mary Matthew
Baptism Date: 15 Feb 1835
Parish: Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St Peter' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: David Matthew
Mother: Jane Matthew
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number: Drl/2/295


Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911

Name: Alice Matthews
Baptism Date: 15 May 1837
Parish: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: David Matthews
Mother: Jane Matthews
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number: Drl 2/297



??? death of David Matthews??

Liverpool, England, Burials, 1813-1974

Name: David Matthews
Birth Year: abt 1805
Age: 32
Burial Date: 20 Jan 1837
Parish: Toxteth, St Michael in the Hamlet
Reference Number: 283 HAM/4/1



John Matthews, b.ca 1832, was a pupil at the Blue Coat Hospital in 1841

Here's details of the marriage but no fathers named.

Edit: Fathers name: Francis Rush, labourer & John King ,Tailor


Name:Jane King

Marriage Date:24 Jun 1839

Parish:St Patrick, Lancashire, England

Spouse's Name:John Ruth

Wit: Alice Martin?(hard to read) & Michael Rush

1841

Michael Rush 35 -born Ireland
Margaret Rush 30
Mary Rush 9
Catherine Rush 8 - born Ireland
John Rush 6
James Rush 4
Felix Rush 1

all the rest born in Lancashire

Baptism: 15 Nov 1818 St Michael in the Hamlet, Aigburth, Lancashire, England
Jane King - [Child] of John King & Mary
Born: 9 Aug 1806
Abode: Pottery
Occupation: Customs
Baptised by: Wm. Hesketh
Register: Baptisms 1815 - 1839, Page 8, Entry 57
Source: LDS Film 2147881

Baptism: 15 Nov 1818 St Michael in the Hamlet, Aigburth, Lancashire, England
Margaret Melling - [Child] of John King & Mary Melling (Margaret King in the actual register)
Born: 25 Jul 1808
Abode: Pottery
Occupation: Servant of Customs


Marriage: 17 Aug 1789 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John King - Tailor, Liverpool
Mary Melling - (X), Spinster, Liverpool
Witness: John Wright; Peter Bankes

Wow thank you everybody for all your amazing help. Yes John Rush was Janes 2nd Husband. It is some years ago I did this and just looking at it all again.
I did know about John Matthews step son but had no idea she had 2 other children.
Great idea about getting the Marriage certificate of John Rush to Jane King 1839 ai have the GRO ref numbers Gins sorry maybe I'm being a bit thick you give details of the marriage and say fathers not mentioned but also say edit Father Francis Rush Lab and John King tailor? The witness was her sister Alice King (1790) who is the sister in law of John Rush Alice Watkins 61 widow. 1841 wife of Thos Watkins but couldn't see a marriage listed. Gosh thank you so much more to go on now. I wonder if the Marriage certificate would give fathers names? I am useless with computers. A huge thank you to you all ??

The transcription of the marriage for John Rush & Jane King, I found at Ancestry but that showed no fathers names.

After posting that transcription, I found a family tree that had uploaded/attached a copy of the actual marriage certificate. This gave the full details of the marriage, including the fathers names and occupations.

There is no value in you buying a copy from the GRO as I've viewed it and given you the information on the actual certificate.

Hope that helps to clarify

Thank you so much Gins, I'm pretty sure John and Michael are brothers., We know Margaret and Jane are and now on Census for 1851 their sister Alice is living with them. Says sister in law. So also Margaret sister. Oh darn, I wanted it so much I hadn't thought it through properly. That is no confirmation John and Michael are brothers, they could still be cousins couldn't they?

Thank you
Jacky

I'm so dizzy Margaret and Jane are sister, the reads like they are brothers. Doh

I'm so dizzy Margaret and Jane are sister, the reads like they are brothers. Doh

As I suggested above ...............

you could buy the marriage certificate for John Rush.

If his father is named on there, then you could use that as a basis to see if you can find records for John Rush with father xxxx in Ireland ......... and hopefully be able to extend the search to see if there was a brother Michael.

There are 2 or 3 GR members who can help with finding Irish records .... but having the father's name is one huge step. Always assuming of course that John told the truth!!

Sylvia thank you. Gins ( see above) has seen an actual copy of the marriage certificate and Johns father was Francis Rush a labourer. Father of Jane King John King a tailor. Sadly, I have been unable to locate records for John, Michael or the father of John and hopefully Michael.
I guess it's back to the drawing board tyvm

Jacky .....


where have you looked for the records?

I have posted the baptisms of Jane & Alice along with the marriage of her father John to Margaret Melling (see above)

I guess for Michael Rush you need to delve into Irish records for his birth

for easy ref his marriage

Marriage: 7 Nov 1830 St Patrick, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Michael Rush -
Margaret King -
Witness: John Rush; Catharine McClean