Genealogy Chat

Night Night...me going too

Hi Valerie Just thought I'd let you know you're not alone with these strange goings on...I have the niece of my grt grandmother marrying a chap in 1942, then he died in 1944, she then had a son in 1946 and gave him her dead husbands surname (registered with it)! Obviously there is no way it could have been his son! I think perhaps it is done to hide the fact that the child was illegitimate. I've yet to order this son's birth cert - but it will be interesting to see what she has said for who the father was...probably left it blank! Oh - and on another branch from that same surname I have a widow with children who remarried (legally) in the late 1870s and is found on the 1881 census with new hubby and her youngest son - all of whom were using the surname of this new hubby. A few years later hubby No. 2 died and both mother and son reverted back to their original surname of hubby No.1. for some reason or other. What confusion that was trying to find them!

I don't know if I'm following this correctly??????? Are you saying.... Woman has children in wedlock (lets say Smith) Mr Smith dies Mrs Smith take on a ''lodger'', Mr Brown Mrs Smith has a baby which is given the name Smith (ie his mum's current surname). Mr Smith has been dead two years. Mrs Smith married the lodger, so she becomes Mrs Brown Mrs Brown has further children called Brown On the next census, the most recent children are called Brown, the earlier legitimate children of Mr Smith have adopted their step-dad's name and are called Brown, but the child born between the marriages is still called Smith. Is that what we are playing with? Sometimes I am glad we are not related, Val! Merry

thanks so much for your replies , the only problem is its making me more confused if thats possible. Merry Remember that Ivy or Joy Woman and her son John Thomas Keen this is them. She married a John Samuel Keen in 1834 had a Daughter Elizabeth in 1835 another Daughter Mary Ann in 1838 another Daughter Elizabeth in 1840 and a Daughter Rebecca in 1847 Husband dies in 1848 she is living with a William Wallis on the 1861 census( so far cannot find them on the 1851 census) with Rebeca Wallis age 13 who I believe is the above Rebecca born 1847 and a Ann Wallis age 5 who I believe is her new Daughter by her new Husband William Wallis who she married in 1850 John Thomas no sign of on the 1871 census is Elizabeth Wallis(Keen) age 59 Mary Ann Keen age 32 Rebecca Wallis age 24 Anne Wallis age 15 William the husband died in 1867 still no trace of John Thomas who then married in 1869 and cannot find him on any census before or after PLEASE SOMEBODY SORT ME OUT

I can't find them in 1861 or 1871 with the details you have given?????? I guess they are mistranscribed, but as I don't know where they lived I am stuck! I need to see the pages to get my head round it! Merry

Oops.....found the 1861 Wallace! William Wallace abt 1812 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Head Shoreditch Middlesex Elizabeth Wallace abt 1812 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Wife Shoreditch Middlesex Rebecca Wallace abt 1848 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch Middlesex Ann Wallace abt 1856 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter Shoreditch Middlesex Merry

Merry on 1861 mistranscribed William Wallace Head 1812 Middlesex Elizabeth Wallace 1812 Middlesex Rebecca Wallace 1848 Middlesex Ann Wallace 1856 Shoreditch on 1871 Elizabeth Wallace 1812 Shoreditch Mary A Keen 1839 Middlsex Annie E Wallace 1856 Shoreditch Rebecca Wallace 1847 Shoreditch

John Thomas (surname??) married in 1869, but earlier you said ''John Thomas not born yet''......when wasn't he born yet? it looks like you are saying in 1861 he wasn't born yet, but that can't be right? Merry

sorry Merry what I should have said he isnt on the census with them in 1851 for some reason

For what it's worth in 1871 Rebecca and Mary were born in ''City'' not Shoreditch. I assume Rebecca changed her name because she was still a child when she got a stepfather, but Mary wasn't, so she didn't? So......where does John Thomas fit in? Merry

Sorry, we crossed! Earlier you said you hadn't found them on the 1851 yet, so how do you know John Thomas isn't there? When was he born? Merry

and what was his surname? Merry

hi again thanks for trying, I have a birth date for him of 21/2/1850 christened 17/3/1850 I know thats right because we have related contacts , but I cannot find his birth cert to confirm this keep getting the wrong one. his name is John Thomas Keen born 1850 St leonards Shoreditch

Sorry, I just read the initial message again!! So......John Thomas Keen (?) was born two years after the death of Mr Keen and shortly before(??????????) Mrs Keen married Mr Wallis. Is that right? John Thomas' name would then be Keen because that was his mum's name at the time?????? (which Olde Crone said at the beginning) It would only be if he was born AFTER the Keen to Wallis marriage that we would be surprised, surely? Merry

OK, so he was born Feb 1850 and was called Keen (his mum's surname, so that seems reasonable). Mrs K married in Q3 1850 to Mr Wallis........Rebecca changed her name to Wallis........ Where is John Thomas Keen in 1861? Merry

ooh Merry I realise that now I suppose I thought Mr Wallis was maybe his father, but I still cannot understand why I cannot find him on any census at all, where would he be.

Helloooo I dont know what happened with the son but yes a step father could have legally adopted children from his wifes previous marriage, its happened in my tree. Hope this helps? Rebecca

It's a bit tight isn't it?? Mrs Keen has a baby in Feb 1850 (John Thomas Keen) and then she has another baby, William Wallis, in November or so the same year???? What's going on? 1851 Eliza Wallis abt 1841 Daughter St Luke Old Street Middlesex Elizabeth Wallis abt 1811 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Wife St Luke Old Street Middlesex John Wallis abt 1843 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England Son St Luke Old Street Middlesex Mary Wallis abt 1838 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter St Luke Old Street Middlesex >>>>>>Richard Wallis abt 1847 Daughter St Luke Old Street Middlesex >>>>>William Wallis abt 1811 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Head St Luke Old Street Middlesex William Wallis abt 1850 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Son St Luke Old Street Middlesex Richard is Rebecca born City and William is aged 5 months. And as you say, John Thomas has been abducted! Merry

ooh where did you find that Merry thanks so much , yes I agree its a muddle all I want is his birth cert seems impossible.

really Rebecca did they get legally adopted then ???