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Birth Certs,Adoptions and index question.Latest ne

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 24 Jan 2006 15:06

Would an adopted child have two entries in the birth index,one under the name at birth and one under the adopted name.Sounds stupid i know but i can't find either of mine,pre or post adoption. Silly thing is i'm now being told by my new boss that he needs my cert for proof of identity! He does know a cert is NOT proof,but he wants it anyway,i think it's to prove i'm not an illegal immigrant. Problem is though i can't find entries under either name. Would the name my adopted parents gave me appear on the bmd index,(because then there are two entries for one birth) Glen

Janet in Yorkshire

Janet in Yorkshire Report 24 Jan 2006 15:17

Years ago I did a look up at St Catherine's house for a friend. Her birth was registered in the normal way in the GRO birth's index, under her original birth name.(Mary Smith) There was a different 'adoption' index and she appeared in that under her new name. (Jane Brown) So she appeared twice, but in two different indexes and under two different names. Obviously there was no way that anyone could link the two - but she had seen her file and had a copy of her original birth certificate. With that information it was easy to find the two entries. I'm sure someone will correct me if the system has changed. Jay

Dizzy Lizzy 205090

Dizzy Lizzy 205090 Report 24 Jan 2006 15:45

An adopted child is always registered in their birth name, even when placed elsewhere very soon after birth. Following adoption, the legal processes of which can take some months, the child is then registered in the new name on the Adoption register, NOT the birth register. The certificate then issued is a certificate of adoption, but the short version is identical to a normal birth certificate. If you have a copy of your short certificate, you can show your employer without giving away your adoptive status. If you have lost your certificate, you can apply for a new one from the Adoption Register of the GRO in the same way as you would apply for a birth certificate. Liz

Dizzy Lizzy 205090

Dizzy Lizzy 205090 Report 24 Jan 2006 15:48

From the GRO website: Adoptions Adopted Children Register Introduction The Adopted Children Register is a record of all adoptions granted by courts in England and Wales since 1927. When a court issues an adoption order a new birth entry is made in the Adopted Children Register. This replaces the original birth entry. The order also instructs the General Register Office to ensure the original birth entry is marked ‘adopted’. The entire process, which includes instructing the registrar who holds the original birth entry, may take up to six weeks. Once this process is completed adoptive parent(s) will receive a free short adoption certificate. To order more copies of full or short certificates, see Certificates. The Adopted Children Register is not open to public inspection or search. What if there is a mistake on the Court Order? What needs to be done? The adoptive parent(s) must contact the Court that dealt with the adoption and request an amended order. Without this a correct entry cannot be made in the Adopted Children Register. There is a link on the page to take you to the ordering procedure. Liz

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 24 Jan 2006 15:55

Thanks Liz,i did have the short one,however he will only accept the long one,i think at this point i'm really going to struggle to prove anything to him.I'm still waiting for my court records,only now the court (after 3 months) are saying no to every request for information. Now't but aggro at the minute,only starting the job tomorrow,if i can prove i didn't sneak in hanging onto a train or something stupid.

Dizzy Lizzy 205090

Dizzy Lizzy 205090 Report 24 Jan 2006 16:02

Glen, Why on earth does he have to see your long certificate? The details held on it are confidential to you surely? Have you sought advice about this? Again from the GRO: 'A short certificate shows date, place and country of birth adoptive forename and surname sex It carries no reference to adoption. Therefore it is indistinguishable from any other short birth certificate. A full certificate shows date of birth, place and country of birth adoptive forename and surname sex name and surname, address and occupation of adoptive parent(s) date of adoption order, date on which adoption granted and the name of the court ' The only extra details he will find out refer to your parents and your adoption, neither of which is anything to do with your boss. It seems a bit OTT to me. You do not need to wait for your adoption papers to come through to order a full version of your adoption certificate if that is what you decide to do. Your original (birth) certificate in your birth name is only of curiosity value to you, it serves no legal purpose. Liz

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 24 Jan 2006 16:15

Why the heck he wants the long one i don't know,but it seems to be getting a very common request.Coming up to xmas i got finished on my last job,and had to try a few agencies.They all refuse to entertain you without a birth cert,i don't know why though. As it says though on every cert i've had,'Warnimg: a certificate is not evidence of identity' So they are quite happy to accept a non identifying document as identity,as long as it's the long version!!!!!!!!!! Probs some stupid EEC rule and work permit rubbish.

Dizzy Lizzy 205090

Dizzy Lizzy 205090 Report 24 Jan 2006 16:23

In that case, apply for your long certificate from the GRO. It is a straightforward form to fill in and costs £11.50. I applied for mine recently as I had lost it and it came in about a week. Explain to your boss that your certificate is in transit. He will have to make do with the short one for now. I must admit, I have never had to produce my full certificate ever when applying for a job, just my short one. I sent for a copy of it out of curiosity more than anything else. Good luck with your new job, Liz x

Mandy in Wiltshire

Mandy in Wiltshire Report 24 Jan 2006 16:27

Glen Have you been looking on Ancestry for your entry, or 1837? Only I am definitely on 1837 but that section is missing on the new Ancestry records. I've got some 1837 credits if you'd like me to look up the reference for you on there (it will be under your birth name though, not your adoptive name, and that will be no good to your boss because it doesn't 'prove' who you are now). I know you won't want to 'rock the boat' in a new job, but he has no right to ask for the long cert instead of the short cert. In my last job, I had to check documents for people's CRB checks and a short birth certificate was acceptable. Mandy :)


Rachel Report 24 Jan 2006 16:28

If you have a Passport that will give you your nationallity and the new photocard driving licences have the your place of birth next to your date of birth. They should be enough proff for anyone.

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 24 Jan 2006 16:30

The bit that ticks me off though is you can't get a GRO number,so the damned thing costs more. Think i'll tell him if he wants it so bad he can pay for it.Ironically it's a driving job but the driving licence won't prove who i am! Thanks Liz Rant over Glen

Dizzy Lizzy 205090

Dizzy Lizzy 205090 Report 24 Jan 2006 16:35

Yes, I know Glen, it is irritating isn't it. I think the Adoption Register is kept from public view to protect the identity of adopted children. Therefore, it is impossible to get a ref number, so you have to pay more. I can see the reason for it though. Btw, hi Mandy :-D Liz x

Mandy in Wiltshire

Mandy in Wiltshire Report 24 Jan 2006 16:36

Glen Why can't you get the GRO index to order the cert? (sorry if I'm being dumb and missing something here!) Mandy :) Oops yes, just read the replies more clearly and I was being dumb! (Hi Liz!) Glen, all the best in your new job, despite the fussy boss!

Dizzy Lizzy 205090

Dizzy Lizzy 205090 Report 24 Jan 2006 16:38

Mandy, Its the Adoption cert Glen needs, and they have to be ordered without the ref as the index is not searchable. His original birth cert is not legally valid. Liz :-) Hmm, we are overlapping ;-)

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 24 Jan 2006 16:51

Well he's got a choice,shortie and my licence or a wait and a bill for £11.50. I would have thought his biggest worry is whether i can actually drive 65 foot of car transporter,not where the heck i was born. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH


Pippa Report 24 Jan 2006 17:17

Talk about ridiculous! Imagine the stress if you didn't know that you were adopted? Surely a passport of driving licence would be adequate. I laugh at work when we accept birth cert as a form of ID with the little message underneath. AsI keep telling everyone I can order one quite easily over the internet and bring it in. Silly fools.


Vicky Report 24 Jan 2006 17:35

off topic, it is now the employers duty to check the people they employ are not illegal & do have the right to work here (ie not on a student visa or whatever) In my opinion some employers have taken this too far. Hubby has an NI number issued 35 years ago, and can show you P60s from the first couple of jobs he ever had. He also has his original GCE certificate & God only knows what else.... He is looking for a new job & has signed up to several job search agencies. One wanted to see his birth certificate before they would let him register. (He refused) They act only as an intermediary - they wouldn't even be employing him!!! Reading between the lines again, and I know its not PC of me to say so (I'm having a very non-PC day) he is as English as they come, & anyone who has ever met him would be in no doubt. Its understandable that you might want to check up on someone looking or sounding foreign, so those of us who are 100% English (or Scots Welsh Irish etc) have to put up with this nonsense too. If employers used their common sense, the NI number (perhaps on an income tax letter!) ought to be good enough proof.


Unknown Report 24 Jan 2006 18:16

Just today my son (14) opened a savings account with his short cert as proof of identity. The long one does not prove identity any better than the short one. I have used my driving licence and passport as proofs of identity before, as well as my credit card. Though of course none of them PROVE who I am really! nell

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 24 Jan 2006 18:22

Fully agree with you Vicky,this chap has references from two employers going back nine years,i have 2 years worth of payslips with NI numbers etc. He is quite happy to see me drive £200 k worth of truck and £700k worth of load,without even seeing me drive,but flaps cos i can't show him where i was born. The other half slogs herself daft in a factory where only 12% of the workforce are born in the uk.No disrespect to some of the 'foreigners' but how the hell can they sign up for work straight 'off the boat'.


Sandra Report 24 Jan 2006 18:23

Hi Glen Go to the Citizens Advice they will get you a copy of your adopted birth cert. Your new boss should take the short version as it is legal. good luck in your new job. Best wishes Sandra