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A Sad Little Tale - Part 2 (Closed)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Nicola

Nicola Report 18 Aug 2007 10:56

Hello, Well I've been in contact with Joe Silmon-Monerri and he is over the moon with all the info that I could provide him from this search about Teresa and Patricia. I have some more info below although I am sorry to say it kind of puts a downer on all of you hoping Patricia's mum found happiness in her second marriage, I quote... 'You've helped to solve another great mystery about the Wilson who was married to my Aunt Theresa Amina (née WELD SILMON). Note: she had 1) a Christian and 2) a Muslim forname. She was married to two good-for-nothing men, one called HAYES and the other WILSON. Both drunks. One was a bit better than the other. One stayed in bed most of the day, until it was time to go to the pub again. She had a miserable life, poor thing, and she was a really lovely person. I'll never forget how kind she was to us kids in the early-mid 40s. She had about a dozen children in all (Hayes and Wilsons).' However according to Joe there were siblings! For those of you looking on ancestry I have added pictures on to the tree and a bit of info but not huge amounts yet as there are a lot of names and dates. I can probably scan some certificates to add too. Another interesting snippet - Sara Jane's daughter Leonora (daughter of Carlo Pisola and half aunt to Patricia) had a leg amputated as a toddler by the Duke of Somerset's physicians after we believe she was dropped down a stairwell by a Monaghan uncle - although again this is family ledgend and not confirmed. From reading back on the recent posts it looks like this was on the radio?! Can anyone tell me more? Thanks Nikki

Mumsy

Mumsy Report 18 Aug 2007 12:09

Nikki, It was on the radio on Thursday 16th August and you can listen to that program on 'listen again' on the BBC website. BBC radio player station: Radio Wales program: Good Evening Wales Thursday, 42 minutes into the program Mumsy.

Caz

Caz Report 18 Aug 2007 16:11

could it be that George Francis started out living with Patricias' mother as a lodger. My gran took in a lodger after she was widowed with young children to help her pay the rent etc. In the case of Henrietta maybe the relationship developed over a period of time and that is why there is the gap between when they started sharing a house and when they actually married. We are assessing their situation based on what we consider to be usual but what we have to keep sight of is that nothing about that time was usual. Many young women were widowed and left to raise their children alone and many people were left homeless so it would not be unusual for people to take in a lodger. Whatever happened I like everyone else on here hope she found some happiness. Caz

Paul

Paul Report 18 Aug 2007 16:43

Hi Caz, Rachel provided the following details Electoral Listing 1934 both William and Henrietta living at No. 22 1935 – 1939 both William & Henrietta living at No. 9 1939/1940 only Henrietta living at No. 9 No Rolls for the war years May 1945 – 1948 only Henrietta living at No. 9 1949 Henrietta Armstrong & George Francis living at No.9 1949 – 1962 Henrietta Armstrong & George Francis living at No. 9 1963 Henrietta Francis & George Francis living at No. 9 1964 – 1971 Henrietta & George living at No. 9 Where William is at this time we have not been able to find out and there has been a lot of discussion on this. Perhaps we will find out one day but to date it is still a mystery. Bye Paul

Caz

Caz Report 18 Aug 2007 18:16

Hi Paul, thanks for the info. Yourself, Rachel, Jenny and others (sorry I can't remember all your names) are doing a fantastic job and I like many others am hanging on with bated breath for the next piece of the puzzle to slot into place in the hope of a happy outcome. Caz

Paul

Paul Report 18 Aug 2007 18:59

Hello Brenda, Your list looks like one well worth following up. It is now known that Theresa Amina Silmon married a second time to a Hayes and, if my memory serves me correctly, Nicola has indicated that she had about a dozen children between the two marriages. Yet I only know of Henrietta to date. Many thanks for all your time and effort Bye Paul

Carter

Carter Report 18 Aug 2007 19:24

just got in from work oh i hate working on saturdays but couldnt wait to read the postings. lots of info and i agree with the post someone put about seeing it all as a tree then i think i could get my head around it. lots of hard work gone on with all this research. sorry that christine and margaret seemed to have had a misunderstanding but hope they are both ok now and christines arthritis gets better. well done margaret for all your contributions. well going for a well deserved glass of red wine now cheers linda x

Mommylonglegs

Mommylonglegs Report 18 Aug 2007 22:24

JUST TO LET YOU ALL KNOW. Myself, Rachel and Maggie have just spent nearly two hours talking together in a three way telephone conference. I am concentrating in the North East. Maggie is trawling the very tiring BMD's in many areas. Rachel is working very hard in the London areas of Woolwich and surrounding areas, etc. I am hoping to go to Newcastle on Monday or Tuesday and order 3 certificates. I may be able to get them straight away or with two days. We will keep you informed as soon as we have the info we think we need. Jenny.

Mumsy

Mumsy Report 18 Aug 2007 22:32

Hey girls, Well done you. I can't believe that people are going to such lengths - it's brilliant! Keep up the good work everyone. Mumsy.

Woody's

Woody's Report 18 Aug 2007 23:21

I notice some of the Armstrong children were born in Scotland - these are the births. Grace - 8/1/1866 Castleton, Roxburgh Margaret Little - 26/1/1864 also Castleton James - 11/7/1862 also Castleton Parents were Peter Armstrong and Mary Glendinning. They married 22/2/1861 in Castleton. Son William was born William Glendinning 11/11/1857 in Teviothead, Roxburgh. As they married in Scotland the marriage cert shows the parent's names so I took the liberty of downloading it. Married 22/2/1861 at Riccarton according to banns of Ch of Scotland Peter Armstrong age 23, Farm Servant, Bachelor, Riccarton Parish of Castleton and Mary Glendinning age 30, Domestic Servant, Spinster, Gatestones, Parish of (looks like Simonburgh) Northumberland. His parents - Peter Armstrong, Farm Servant, deceased and Grace Little, Domestic Servant, now Livingstone. Looks like Peter and Grace did not marry as her name is not shown as m.s which is usual. She married William Livingstone 26/2/1841 in Canonbie, Dumfries. Her parents - Ninian Glendinning, Shepherd, and Margaret Glendinning, m.s.Little, deceased. They married 4/8/1827 in Westerkirk, Dumfries. The witnesses were William Armstrong and William Jackson and all signed their names. If you want the cert let me have an email address and I can send it.

Paul

Paul Report 18 Aug 2007 23:27

Hello Woody, You've been busy too. I think Patricia's family tree is building at an exceptional rate. Thanks for all the hard work. Paul Just gone through all the details you have supplied. It's another treasure trove.

Woody's

Woody's Report 18 Aug 2007 23:40

It's very interesting, Paul. I'm not that great at searching English records but I do know my way around the Scottish ones! If you want the census for any of them let me know although anyone with access to Ancestry can get them! 1871 and 1881 Ninian is in England - and that parish is Simonburn apparently! I did have a look for death certs for Glendinnings but looks like Ninian and Margaret didn't die in Scotland.

CherryCrumbles

CherryCrumbles Report 19 Aug 2007 02:10

Hi Maureen - I have been helping Paul off site with Collations to finish this project, and have just seen your posting. The 'long posting' you refer to is something I copied from a posting (i.e. highlight and paste) I did over a year ago - I have not typed it today. And I am not all right. I do have severe osteo-arthritis, as anyone who has met me and seen my hands will attest, and I really do need to keep keyboard use to a minimum. I would not want anyone to get the wrong impression. christine x

SuzyQ

SuzyQ Report 19 Aug 2007 05:07

Hi, I would like to thank everyone or their hard work researching Patricia and for sharing it with the rest of us. It is the first thing that I look for when I log on, I am completely hooked. I think some one mentioned that Patricia's tree had been put on Ancestry, but I am unable to find it, I search Patricia Armstrong and Henrietta Wilson. Can some one please help me to find it. SuzyQ (from Australia)

Ivy

Ivy Report 19 Aug 2007 07:04

Hi Woody Thanks for the marriage certificate details for Peter Armstrong. I know nothing about Scottish records, but this site has no-one searching Peter Armstrong born 1838, although there are two references to Peter Armstrong born 1828. Is it possible that Peter was 33 when he married? All the best

CherryCrumbles

CherryCrumbles Report 19 Aug 2007 08:17

Hello Maureen, sorry I thought you were referring to the posting about the trolls. That was a long posting but it was copied from something I did some time ago. The posting about Maddie was also copied. I have no alternative but to use the keyboard to keep in touch with some people via email, and I'd sent my Maddie views to someone. I always keep a copy of what I email out in case the topic comes up again which saves me typing effort. I keep my right hand strapped up and use my left hand for the mouse although I'm right handed, and do mostly one finger plonking. Although I have friends here (and have met a few of them), it made my hands worse to spend as much time on the boards as I was spending. Something had to give. However I have some Information threads on Tips so most weekends I nudge them up, and I came across Paul's thread the other week while doing my nudging. I've collated the data into a storyline for Paul and been working on it for a few days, copying from the thread, and finished yesterday, I sent the completed version to him last night. As and when any new data is added to Paul's thread it will be easy enough to just add that on to the end of the 'story' thread. There are some lovely people here but no one has to feel concerned about me, I get by :)) Christine x

Woody's

Woody's Report 19 Aug 2007 08:17

I wish he was, Ivy, but it is clearly 23 on the cert and his wife 30. If you pm me your email address I'll attach the cert and forward it. His parents are shown as Peter Armstrong and Grace Little who later marries Wm Livingstone. I can find all census entries for Grace, William and her children with William but Peter is never with them. Instead, he is staying with Jean Carruthers and her mother Anne in 1841 and with Jean Carruthers in 1851. By 1861 he is a Ploughman on a farm (age 60)and a William Armstrong (presumably the witness on the cert)is also same address aged 22. There is no birth shown (on IGI anyway) for Peter Armstrong, Little or Carruthers! Also no (obvious) link between Grace Little and Jean Carruthers. However, I notice there are no male births recorded in that parish but plenty female births! I've come across this before and there is a reason for it but can't remember it, I'll need to check on another site. I should say maybe - there are a lot of submitted entries on IGI for all the people concerned so someone may already have submitted a file on this family. All the relevant dates etc for this are from extracted entries and therefore will be verified by parish entries.

Linda G

Linda G Report 19 Aug 2007 09:08

I read this every morning and night. Such hard work people have put in and it's fascinating. I see that someone said that Patricia's Tree in on Ancestrry...I can't seem to find it...can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks Linda

Linda G

Linda G Report 19 Aug 2007 11:53

nudging in case anyone knows where the Tree is Linda

Paul

Paul Report 19 Aug 2007 12:37

Hello All, I know that there has been a lot of activity this weekend and I am happy to say that the tree is up and running; will find out how to access it and get back to you. The amount of information that has been flowing now means that there are so many new avenue's to explore, that I think it's taking everyones time up off the board. It would also be true to say that there is as much communication taking place via PM that also has to be followed up. Many people have good idea's but may be a little reluctant to clog up the Tips Board. In the event of repeating myself, many thanks to everyone on and off the board for their total support and commitment, many of whom leave my contribution in the shade. Thanks Paul