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A Sad Little Tale - Part 2 (Closed)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

~Summer Scribe~

~Summer Scribe~ Report 23 Aug 2007 01:29

ok... so I clicked to edit my post and it deleted it? What was that about?

Anyway, to go back over what I'd said. I wondered if maybe the 1962 date of divorce coincided with some changes in divorce law. When I googled divorce 1962, it gave me the introduction of the 'no-blame divorce' but on closer inspection, this appears to be to do with the USA. A second google attempt has found that the divorce reform act in the UK didn't come in until 1969, which is too late for Hetty & William's divorce. But this act established divorce on the basis of irretrevable breakdown (desertion by one party etc). My thoughts initially were that maybe Henrietta didn't want to put the fault on William but closer inspection shows that the no fault divorce doesn't exist in the UK, which suggests to me that the petition should give a reason.

Another reason she may have waited so long...perhaps it just took her new man that long to propose marriage to her. lol.

Carter

Carter Report 23 Aug 2007 10:09

just had a few days away and i come back and everything has changed on this site. i feel like a newbie but the story is still enthralling.
linda x

Phyllis

Phyllis Report 23 Aug 2007 14:31

hi,
what with all the deleted bits.
phyllis

Christine

Christine Report 24 Aug 2007 12:24

Hi Folks,
hope to get this back on the first page soon, seems to be a lot of deleted posts since I looked yesterday.
Keep up the good work everyone you are doing a fantastic job
Regards
Chris

Julie

Julie Report 24 Aug 2007 12:34

Wow!!!

Have been off the site for a few days and what a difference in everything!!

Well done to all involved in the research, this is better reading than the book I'm on at the moment

Julie

Maltilda

Maltilda Report 24 Aug 2007 14:31

nudge for later

 Sue In Yorkshire.

Sue In Yorkshire. Report 24 Aug 2007 19:10

Such an interesting real life story.

Brilliant work by a brilliant team of people.

Suexxxxxxxxx

Carter

Carter Report 24 Aug 2007 22:50

still cant find the tree on ancestry
linda

Christine

Christine Report 24 Aug 2007 23:48

Hi Linda
If you go on to page 6 you will find a message from Rachel Ridgeon. She very kindly put how to get onto the Ancestry site.Best of luck. I have been on all three sites for Patricia and the amount of work that has been put in is great. Wish you all well

Regards
Chris

Judy

Judy Report 25 Aug 2007 13:45

Hi all

Been reading with interest to find out what happens next in Patricia's story. I feel very proud to belong to a community of people who would go to such lengths to ensure that this precious child is not forgotten.
Didn't think I could be any help in the search for her family but while doing some work on my Scottish relatives I remembered Patricia's great grandparents were Scottish.
I had a look at the tree on Ancestry to check the details and I think I may have come across her great grandfather Peter's marriage.

Marriages:
Spouse: MARY LOGGAN
Marriage: 27 DEC 1855 Innermesson, Inch, Wigtown, Scotland

Husband Age at Marriage: 20
Wife Age at Marriage: 19

Grooms Parents:
Father: JOHN ARMSTRONG
Mother: JANE MC DOWALL

I'm going to look for the birth certificates of this couples children and see if this could be them.
It may not help much but could open up another line to follow.

Judy

Phyllis

Phyllis Report 25 Aug 2007 13:52

Hi Judy,
If you wish could go to research place in Dumfries on Tuesday as all names you have mentioned are local names,Aslo Have Armstong in my tree but further north, Hamilton Lanarkshire.
Phyllis

Emma

Emma Report 25 Aug 2007 14:03

Mood Blue,

Grace Armstrong died as a baby:

birth

Name: Grace Armstrong
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's Maiden Name: Fisher
District: Alnwick
County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 931

death

Name: Grace Armstrong
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1912
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 0
District: Alnwick
County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 596

Judy

Judy Report 25 Aug 2007 14:19

Thanks Phyllis. If you have time that would save me searching.

I will PM you the details I've found so far.

Speak soon

Paul

Paul Report 25 Aug 2007 15:57

Hello All,
Just to say that I am still here and taking note of the fantastic amount of information being provided. The response has been overwhelming and so has the amount of information with it.
There are many people working long and hard on this and I feel confident of a positive outcome.
Please keep the information coming, a lack of reply does not mean that your input has not been noted or considered of little value. Every bit helps.
Many thanks
Bye
Paul

~Summer Scribe~

~Summer Scribe~ Report 25 Aug 2007 19:32

Is it not possible they had a second daughter that they also called Grace? I know I've several ancestors who seem to have done similar when a child died young.

Mummy Bear

Mummy Bear Report 26 Aug 2007 16:37

Update – A Sad Little Tale

I went to LMA (London Metropolitan Archives) during the week to see if they had any details on the Schools that Patricia may have attended (there are three possible), only one had an admissions book held by LMA, which was for the period 1935 – 1939 – So a long shot. Sadly, no mention of Patricia.

Looked through the LCC (London County Council) education committee minutes for four months after the accident but no mention.

Additionally, I looked at evacuee information (they have loads and loads so it was a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack) I did find some interesting information on evacuee deaths i.e. parents/siblings claiming expenses for travel, cost of funeral expenses or repatriation of the body to the ‘home’ area from the evacuated area. There were some very touching letters (I did have fingers crossed) but again a disappointment.

Having obtained the information on Henrietta’s divorce I made subsequent enquiries as to the details of the Decree Nisi – to be told that the reason was for:

Abandonment more than 3 years and adultery with Phyllis Doris C****** [I have the name but don’t think it appropriate to publish]. The lady concern was petitioned.

Others involved in this quest have transcribed all the Silmon births & Marriages from 1876 to 2005 – thanks everyone this is a great achievement.

Having this information we have been able to expand the Patricia Armstrong – A Sad Little Tale tree on GR – an update is now available

William Armstrong’s death – someone mentioned a 1988 death in Newton Abbot. The certificate arrived and shows the following:
Date of Death: 7th March 1988
Place of Death: ***** Avenue Kingsteignton, Newton Abbot, Devon
William Armstrong
30th May 1910 – South Shields, Co Durham
Occupation: Electrical Maintenance Man (retired)
Name of informant: Mary Emily Armstrong – Widow

I do not believe this is ‘our’ William


Where next…

I’ve written to the Parish Priest of the Church were Henrietta & William were married enquiring about a Baptism for Patricia and if there’s any reference to Patricia’s death in the Church records – perhaps a special Mass was said for her or a mention in the Church magazine – I await a reply.

Researching Henrietta siblings and half-siblings – good progress is being made. Certificates have been requested to validate any uncertainties.

Where do you think we should go next, what would you do – have a look at the tree on GR and let us know

Thanks
Rachel

Patricia

Patricia Report 26 Aug 2007 16:41

Patricia Armstrong – A Sad Little Tale tree on GR has been updated.

If you like to view the tree and haven't already done so send me a request to view the tree.

Mummy Bear

Mummy Bear Report 26 Aug 2007 18:34

Lynn

Yes, we have identified a remarriage for William - the certificate has been requested .....

When it arrives I'll let you all know the details
Thanks
Rachel

Woody's

Woody's Report 26 Aug 2007 22:47

This was posted earlier but I thought it might help - the name Grace seems to be a family name.

I notice some of the Armstrong children were born in Scotland - these are the births.

Grace - 8/1/1866 Castleton, Roxburgh
Margaret Little - 26/1/1864 also Castleton
James - 11/7/1862 also Castleton

Parents were Peter Armstrong and Mary Glendinning.
They married 22/2/1861 in Castleton.
Son William was born William Glendinning 11/11/1857 in Teviothead, Roxburgh.

As they married in Scotland the marriage cert shows the parent's names so I took the liberty of downloading it.

Married 22/2/1861 at Riccarton according to banns of Ch of Scotland Peter Armstrong age 23, Farm Servant, Bachelor, Riccarton Parish of Castleton and Mary Glendinning age 30, Domestic Servant, Spinster, Gatestones, Parish of (looks like Simonburgh) Northumberland.

His parents - Peter Armstrong, Farm Servant, deceased and Grace Little, Domestic Servant, now Livingstone. Looks like Peter and Grace did not marry as her name is not shown as m.s which is usual. She married William Livingstone 26/2/1841 in Canonbie, Dumfries.

Her parents - Ninian Glendinning, Shepherd, and Margaret Glendinning, m.s.Little, deceased.
They married 4/8/1827 in Westerkirk, Dumfries.

The witnesses were William Armstrong and William Jackson and all signed their names.

If you want the cert let me have an email address and I can send it.

If you want the census for any of them let me know although anyone with access to Ancestry can get them!
1871 and 1881 Ninian is in England - and that parish is Simonburn apparently!
I did have a look for death certs for Glendinnings but looks like Ninian and Margaret didn't die in Scotland.

I can find all census entries for Grace, William and her children with William but Peter is never with them.
Instead, he is staying with Jean Carruthers and her mother Anne in 1841 and with Jean Carruthers in 1851.
By 1861 he is a Ploughman on a farm (age 20)and a William Armstrong (presumably the witness on the cert)is also same address aged 22.

There is no birth shown (on IGI anyway) for Peter Armstrong, Little or Carruthers! Also no (obvious) link between Grace Little and Jean Carruthers.
However, I notice there are no male births recorded in that parish but plenty female births! I've come across this before and there is a reason for it but can't remember it, I'll need to check on another site.

I should say maybe - there are a lot of submitted entries on IGI for all the people concerned so someone may already have submitted a file on this family. All the relevant dates etc for this are from extracted entries and therefore will be verified by parish entries.





Paul

Paul Report 26 Aug 2007 23:01

Hi,
I don't think it's too important but just looking through Woody's posting I think he may be onto something.
The name Little also comes up several times.

Mary Glendinning's mothers maiden name is Margaret Little.
Peter Armstrong (senior) has a child by Grace Little whom they call Peter Armstrong c1838

I wonder if there's a family connection between Grace and Margaret.

Paul