General Chat

Susan

I kind of agree with you, it is assuming, though I doubt very much a 3month old baby would be "sleeping over" as far away as Stafford when they lived in Blackpool? And given all the other evidence about Albert - his dad cutting him out of his inheritance, Bill roaches' mother refusing to talk about her father, I think the evidence of the split is there.

Golden

Yes, the next one proves to have a little moor geneology research involved. Or perhaps, they had to go back further to find anything interesting to make good viewing this time?

Not going to spoil it for you but what i have read on
her ancestors lots of interesting facts.

Emma

Well Alberts wife didn't fall out with him as she died 1940 and he was included in her will.
He was down as a retired caterer she left £6147
Albert died 1945 leaving £6,411 so he didn't squander his inheritance on drink.

The daughter May wasn't included in the will of Alice Waddicor the mum of Albert.
Although she was living with Alice on 1901/1911 census as daughter.
Albert was included in the will of Alice who died 1920.

1911 census states Albert and Mary Zillah had 4 children 1 died
This one perhaps James Albert Waddicor 1900 died J/F/M 1900 Fylde.
maybe Mary Zillah was suffering post natal depression or some other illness,so the children had to be boarded out.

I think sometimes they let their imagination runaway when making this programme.
Maybe it was the fact that Albert didn't like holidaying and remained at home to run the business,or he couldn't walk far as result of having his ankle broke in 2 places.

Another strange thing Mary Zillah died 1940 in her will she leaves her money to daughters Hester and Florence and Albert,no mention of May.
She was live she married 1923 to Ronald l Nicholson.

Still very interesting programme though.

Maryb.

Are we sure May was Zillah's? Perhaps she was Albert's only and that is why she was with the grandparents and why she was in her grandfather's will - the grandfather knowing she would need to be provided for and why he allowed Albert to have the interest but the capital to remain for May.

Also James probably knew what a good business woman Zillah was and would be able to run a business to provide for her other two daughters with Albert. What was Zillah's background - did she come form a business family?

Or maybe May was James' daughter with someone else (so Alice would not have left anything to her) but was told she was Zillah's and Albert's (shown on Census as daughter?)

Lots of unanswered questions - but interesting nevertheless.

Just a reminder for tonight as it was not shown last week.

Celia Imrie.

Emma :-)

Very disappointed in tonights programme

Do we take it that the tree shown at the beginning of the programme was correct with the way the research went.

Have not watched last third of Celia Imrie programme yet, but have found it absolutey fascinating so far. Fancy her father being in trade.

It has really brought to life the charcters of 17th century. In particular, the wonderful women behind these great men of history. The wife and grandmother of Lord Russell.

And that speech before he was beheaded!!!! It reminded me of a speech by a character in Shakespeare's Henry VIII (Duke of Buckingham, I think) before he was beheaded. Such a tear jerker

History nationally but not genealogical, IMO. Pity.

Think if I had the choice of descending from William the First like Celia or the Pilgrim Fathers, I know which I would much prefer. I hate to say this, but I think the Americans got the best of the Brits all those years ago.

It must be very satisfying though to do your family tree and then find you have a "gateway ancestor" like Lord Russell. Who would have thought that Miss Babs had such illustrious ancestors?

I take your point about it not being genealogical, Joy. This series does seem to have darted about quite a bit from the original structure with trees being introduced at regular intervals.

Next week its John Barnes.

Emma

I feel that all of our ancestors are part of history. However there are some, who like Celia Imrie, whose ancestors made history.

She is so fortunate that because of his position, beliefs etc that her 6xg.gfather held is written into our history and is part thereof. Let us not forget that he died for his beliefs.

Son came in as the programme finished and when I said Celia Imrie was descended from Lord Russell - he replied with the query 'the radical'?

Closest I have come to a relative written in a history book (a local one) is that my OH's direct ancestor was in a pulpit urging Roundheads on to desecrate the hallowed building he was standing in!

I found the stories and lives of Celia Imrie's ancestors very interesting,but felt sad when hearing her read the events, showing how life was so barbaric in those times,and the ghastly deaths that could befall them....innocent or guilty!

I love looking at old documents and thought how lucky she was to see the actual writings and pictures from her family history.

Mau

Both Celia and her son seemed very nice people. We have had people with distinguished pedigrees before, but they didn't draw me in like Celia. Fancy being the 8 x g granddaughter of Lord Russell. Was it Harold Wilson that told Lord Home that he was teh 14th Mr Wilson?

That aunt was funny. When Celia met her and they walked down that long avenue (of Roses?) I was expecting her house to look something like the Queen's in Kew Gardens.

Well done, Chris's son. I had no idea who Lord Russell was , though I did realise the name was aristocratic today. What a shame the present day Russell family were not available to comment. The Duchess of Bedford was Henrietta Tiarks before marriage, a real beauty in her day and still very attractive at 72. She is a widow, and her son is the present Duke.

Watched Celia Imrie in WDYTYA, it was a little disappointing to me as in the RT for the previous week therewas an article that said that she was descended from the Countess of Somerset (and gave some details).

As I had recently read "Unnatural Murder, Poisen ath the Court of James 1" I already knew the story.

I was also disappointed in The Lord Russell part of the story.
One of the witnesses against him was a Howard (sorry can't remember his name or title). Frances, Countess of Somerset, was Frances Howard before her first marriage. She was the daughter of Thomas Howard, Earl of Suffolk.

Was there a connection between Frances Howard and the Howard who was witness against her grandson? Did he stand to gain from being a witness for the crown? or was he trying to save his own life by betraying his (possible) relation?

Perhaps I shall now have to read a book about Lord Russell to get the answers.

Tess That is an interesting connection with HOWARDS. Same family as Henry VIII's wife? Same as Dukes of Norolk today?

It is encouraging me to look up 17th century again. I reckon our families (even very ordinary families) would all have been affected. Probably formed many of opinions we hold today.

One book I have read was History of Myddle, a village near Shrewsbury, by Richard (?) Gough. He wrote in c 1710 and was about 80 at time, so was born before the Commonwealth. Very interesting to see how socail order changed in that village during lifetime of Gough.

Such momentous events in 1600's. Gunpowder Plot, Stuart monarchy, Authorised Bible in 1614, Civil War, return to Stuarts, 1662 ejections of 2,000 Vicars over imposition of Common Prayer Book, William of Orange etc etc.

John, I don't know if there was any connection between Katherine Howard and the Howard involved in the Lord Russell trail, but would think it likely.

The book about Myddle, near Shrewsbury, sounds interesting.
Yes, there was a lot going on during the 17th Centuary, >
I reckon that my (ordinary) family, would have very little say in what was to happen but would have had to do what they were told.

It would be interesting if I was able to find out more about my ancestors at that time.
Quite difficult though to find out more than names and place of baptism, if I am lucky enough to find anything at all.

Tess I often wonder what side my main branch were on in Civil War. I am firmly Cromwellian. Not that I approve of everything Cromwell did - but I would firmly be in his camp.

My family though lived in Bridgnorth, which was a Royalist stronghold. They were Parliamentary voters from 1630 - so both in days of Charles I and Oliver Cromwell.

They were traders, so did they have one foot in the Roundhead camp and one foot in Cavalier camp between 1630 and 1660. I would love to know.

I feel certain that most of us had our lives today formed largely by what happened in 17th century, yet I expect many are like me. Not even sure if their families supported Charles or Oliver :-) :-S

Tonight's episode bored me to tears :-(

Am glad I am not the only one - I gave up at 9.40 - first time ever in all the 8 or 9 years this programme has be shown. This one was No.9 of 10 - but nothing on next week and as far as I know John Bishop's has not been shown, has it been pulled? Anyone know why?

I can never forgive the Roundheads stabling their horses in Salisbury Cathedral.

Want to see England in 1642 - google 17th century living history village.

The Panorama programme replaced the missed episode. I hope they will slot it in asap.