General Chat

Susan, page 6 is still their and so is your post

Roy

Kay, I do hope your post about turning tables was not as a result of my post at 10:51

Because I was not turning any tables or suggesting anyone should be on GR 24/7

I stated that in my opinion it was a "timing issue" and possibly related to "complaint overload", nothing more

before John posted their was hundreds of threads/posts where everyone was commenting,

leading up to Johns thread the mood on the boards started to change and some members started posting that some members where moaning
That was what i based my opinion on so based on the timing issue and complaint overload

If So don't quote my post out of context

Roy

Until GR pulled the old tree - which was only a few days ago as we could still access old tree via a "secret link" once it had been removed from menu - many of us were happy. The experts were busily developing a wonderful new layout, but for us plebs it made no difference as we still had our faithful old tree. I even kissed the flock wallpaper as I went to bed each night.

I tried to continue updating as I had done every day. I just couldn't on the new layout. I really hated this new tree and had tried a few weeks previously to use the new rather than the old with similar high stress levels. It is not worth all the hassle for me personally.

So quite a lot of us who never came on these community forums suddenly looked in to see what everyone was saying. A poll "what do think of new layout" had loads of very recent comments - and almost all confirmed my feelings. I took on board immediately that some had put "try the new layout, think you will like it", stop moaning", Genes have said and you will not get old tree back". This advice was new then but got a bit boring when it was repeated on my thread as if I had not looked at anything on other threads. It got even more boring when it was repeated on Ian's great "rubbish, rubbish, rubbish" thread that has unfortunately been Rested and Relaxed and then pulled.

So I started to add my tuppence for first time ever in 9 years of relative (sic) happiness in an attempt to get old tree back, or something resembling it (with all key info about a person on one page ideally)

Then I noticed Genes (who had not at that point recognised there was any unrest amongst the troops except the brightness was too much like shirts washed in Omo) had posted a so-called thread to the top of the Chat board that prevented anybody from commenting. And every time I opened up chat, the first thread told me that "Genes have had a lot of positive and favourable blah blah blah .... 300 views, 0 replies"

So I thought I would cut and paste that and, if anyone was coming on the Community for the first time perhaps, it would give them the opportunity to say what was on their mind. I knew nothing about whether I was following rules or niceties and I think (deep down) I was expecting my thread to be removed immediately as it was a bit cheeky to cut and paste like that.

In future, I shall follow the rules - just like Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and Owain Glyndwr :-) Where would they have got if they had broken the rules?

Now its getting unfair to turn the tables on John for his lack of not being on GR 24/7 to complain within the first half hour ,,,,,,,people are still popping up everyday when they come back on site since the launch about a week ago now .

John you should have gone with.

Rubbish x 100,,,,,,,,,, ;-) ;-) ;-).

Anyway I'm sure its been an eyeopener for him......

New look????? l still sort of like it but still find the white/light grey abit too BRIGHT

jude:)

John, My thoughts are that it appears to me to be a timing issue?

Your thread was started after days of none stop complaints about the new GR site and i honestly believe that some of the comments are as a result of some members having read hundreds of complaints so a sort of complaint overload (if their is such a thing)

I think if you had posted a couple of days earlier you would have had a different response

Just my opinion

Roy

Rather than rake up slurs or irritations posted a day or more ago, and not dealt with it at that time, it would be best to let it rest. This thread will eventually drift off the first couple of pages.

In the cold light of day, Cynthia would probably be happy to remove or modify her remarks if you asked her. You can contact her off board by clicking on her name.

It’s a shame that this thread didn’t develop the way it was intended but that is what happens on an open board. Any topic can develop into a discussion. Think of it as a conversation…it rarely stays on topic.

Below is the post that got me wound up initially. It was even longer than this and was sooo off topic (what do think of new layout, I asked initially). I gently suggested that it was off topic and precised that "Cynthia is happy with new layout then" Then came a load of "John, you seem patronising, smug, every bad trait you could think of to describe someone. Saddo, incontinent.... " I had never been called those things before in my long life, so was a bit taken aback. Here is Cythia's post:

"John, I have to admit that I am a member who is getting tired of all the negative comments, many of which are coming from people who hardly use the Community boards. I am not including the problems with those who suffer from eyesight disabilities - that's a different matter. In the past, I too, have had differences of opinion with GR, but I didn't keep harping on about them.


Some of the problems I have seen since the recent site changes are due to either a person's lack of computer skills - which is understandable or, due to the fact that the complainer has just not spent enough time on their tree to see what each facility does.


Those of us who have quite a large number of posts by our names are those who spend much of our time helping others on this site. We are not here to build bigger and better trees but simply to help. My own tree is a measly 1,300 but I'm quite happy with that.


There are some excellent volunteer member researchers on these boards and a lot of us are here day in and day out - often due to personal circumstances. .....More and more of same..... ""

I must be very stupid. I am told I am the OP (think sometimes you have given me the op). What do you think about the new layout was the point of this site.

I am obviously very interested personally in all these retail comments about Canada, M&S etc etc. But what does M&S think about this new layout? And are they corporate members of GR anyway.

Is it really me who keeps trying to go off topic. I have been (quite rightly) admonished by a couple of OPs on other threads for "going off topic". Can I politely suggest on this thread I have desperately tried to keep it on topic - I think if you read through you will see what I mean.

I think it is disgraceful that someone should suggest that another lister is not as sympathetic as them towards any minority group - absolutely disgraceful. Why could you not have clarified what I meant before blurting to the world on this thread. So insensitive, and bound to upset many able-bodied and not so able bodied alike. My heart was completely pure when I wrote what I wrote, and therefore my conscience was/is absolutely clear. I have been happy to apologise that perhaps I got a word out of place - and I accepted the apology that you misunderstood what I was saying. Why keep raising the issue.

Perhaps if we all went and visited a housebound friend today (in addition to what we normally do) the world might be a much happier place this evening. And we would all be much happier.

:-)

John

You write very well, very lucidly and sometimes very wittily (is that a word?) :-)

But you were puzzled as to how a comment of yours 'upset' Rose. The comment was: "I can see that chat is useful for people who do not have much of a life"

It is all in the perception of speech without body language isn't it?

Somebody (Rose?) said that the site was a lifeline for people who are housebound and/or disabled, or words to that effect. You translated that as 'people who do not have much of a life'. Can you see where I am going?

People who are disabled or housebound may also have a wonderful life as far as they are concerned but still want to make contact with others because they can't get out to do so.

That is why the emoticons help. But keep writing, I enjoy reading what you write.


Sylvia, I buy most of my clothes in M&S and feel that I am usually fairly well dressed, I don't think my clothes are old fashioned or not well made, I even buy clothes from tesco sometimes. I will say that anything bought years ago from M&S has well outlasted anything I bought in the US. I didn't find any clothes to buy in Canada but then didn't really go shopping there and didn't visit places like Toronto where I ams sure the best shops are.

I think I have proved to be a lively fox and a few of you have enjoyed running me to ground.

I would not call it bullying, Francesca. But it was certainly sport, and I have just looked through thread to see who went off topic and when. As a result of significant spoiling tactics, it is difficult to get as many views from this thread as I was hoping initially. It was a genuine attempt to broaden out the first thread on Chat which was stuck there and said the new layout had had lots of praise - but with no opportunity for any of us to give our opinion. So what I wanted really was short(ish) opinions eg I like the new tree because it has the option to print out a more professional tree, I hate the new format because I want to see a relative on one page and not have to pull the blinds across etc etc

You will also note that another fox (Ian - rubbish rubbish rubbish) who doesn't like tree was hounded down in same way - not quite so much as me as I think they (you) were afraid the quarry would bite them (you) back. Instead, somebody has had his thread "Rested and Relaxed" and it has no doubt been removed because he used a Shakespearean word. Poor Shakespeare with his use of pen** and many other unacceptable words today - my teacher (an older lady) told me that "the pen is mightier that the sword" was something else in the original.

I cannot even find where I made this retail point, but it really was just that - a point to emphasise something I was saying. Just like my comment above about unacceptable words - and I hate swearing but also accept that some of it is a modern way of emphasising a point. Just listen to a teenage conversation for 5 minutes and you will see what I mean. I try to have cloth ears and pretend it does not offend me - which it does, very much.

All I will say is that when someone puts a thread up saying they don't like the new layout or what do you think about new layout in future, would it please be possible for that lister not to be told - "write to team@.....", you are using the wrong terminology, stop moaning, Genes have announced there will be no return of new tree...." I knew all that anyway (apart from the importance of using the right language), done it and got the T-shirt - and probably that was why I might have seemed a little patronising. Some of it was interesting, most of it was boring, samey and just seemed to be knee jerk moans about anyone and anything.

I felt I was being constructive and giving an opportunity for some who seldom came on these threads (in my case, never really thought about them much in my 9 years of very enjoyable membership of Genes Reunited).

None of that filling of the thread by the same few people who have clearly become good friends and allies over several years was what myself, Ian or anyone else wanted who legitimately wants to use his or her membership (yes, I have a right to breathe and contribute like everyone else) to complain about the new tree and ask for opinions to gauge how strong the anti-new layout sentiment actually is.

I think we have all been quite amazed how many really hate the new layout. And I am very glad I am not in a small minority of haters. I came on the threads because I felt I must be the only one who did not get on with the new layout - and, yes, I had tried to use it a few times before deciding GR could do nothing to win me to it - it was not the simple tree format that I wanted or needed.

Removal of the old tree option has caused a lot of grief amongst us old tree huggers, and we remain very upset. Hundreds of us (and probably many many more who do not feel confident enough to come on and express their opinion as clearly as Ian, for example. Rubbish, rubbish, rubbish he wrote. Why can't we all be that constructive? Many of us are thinking that, and are using swear words for the first time in our lives occasionally. But like me, we tend to be quiet and like to stay in the background (very sincere emoticon here) and hope that GR can gauge the happiness level of her customers and react professionally.

Sorry, no emoticons. I have not been able to smile (or indeed hear) since you gold medal winder uppers have cut off my brush and my ears. :-(

Scozz

I think I was like most Brits ............... I always used to buy clothes, my underwear and sweaters in particular, from Marks before I left the UK

Was delighted when I found a little shop in Vancouver where the owner imported Marks underwear, and very occasionally sweaters. OH used to take me over there at regular intervals to stock up ....... at twice the price I would have paid in the UK.


So you can imagine how delighted I was to hear M&S was opening real stores ................... but by that time I had become used to always trying on clothes. M&S had no fitting rooms at all, and people here just do not buy clothes on spec, knowing that they could return them without problem if they don't fit. It just was not part of the culture.

You would see people looking at the clothes, making selections, then going to ask if they could use the fitting room ....................... then handing the clothes over to the sales assistant, or dropping them on the counter, and walking out of the store.

Over a period of about 10 years, we just stopped going into M&S ........ too expensive, too dowdy, and frankly not good value.

The only foodstuffs they carried were some of the tinned stuff, and some cakes and cookies (biscuits).


They just had not done their due diligence before opening.

The first store opened in 1973, and they closed the last of them in 1999.





sylvia

Sylvia

We were living in Germany when M&S started stores there (we were in Frankfurt).

I went there a few times, it was usually empty! There was a small supermarket in the basement that sold British goods, which was usually fairly busy, and not just with UK ex-pats. The clothes in M&S were much more expensive than the local stores.

Not sure when M&S closed in Frankfurt, but it didn't last very long.....no idea about their stores in other European places (I think there's a popular one in Brussels).

I've just read this thread from start to finish and it's left a very unpleasant taste in my mouth. During my working life I've represented many victims of bullying in the workplace. I think I have a pretty good eye for spotting the more subtle manifestations of this obnoxious behaviour. I've lost count of the examples I've noticed here. Some people just don't seem to realize how much distress and damage their, so-called, "witty put-downs" can cause. Especially when there's a gang mentality at play. Of course some people actually do know the effect on their victim. This is my debut post but I certainly won't be involving myself in any of these Genes Reunited Chat Boards again. They are Bear Pits. Don't even bother having a dig at me for expressing my opinion. I'm off and I won't be back. Sickening!

hmmmm

I was the one who took you up on your retail comment ...... only to be told that I was off topic!

YOU are the one who has gone off topic by discussing retail ................ and you will learn that that is what happens on threads on this site.

You just cannot make a "throw-away" remark to "make a point" (whatever that point is or was) without being picked up on it by someone!


On the other hand, I was NOT the one who called you "saddo"



Please do try to remember names and who said what, where and when ......... even if you are 93 :-D


It usually means reading back on the thread you are on, or going looking for the thread on which a comment was made. We all do that, to make sure we get our facts correct.



Marks didn't cut it in Canada ................ they had to beat a hasty retreat years ago. Quite literally, they closed the last 38 stores almost overnight in 1999! A friend's brother was manager of the one in Victoria, and got about 1 month's notice of closure.

They just could not adapt to the customer demands over here. They were regarded as stodgy, and catering primarily to senior citizens and British expats.

You have fitting rooms in UK Marks only because they had to install them over here because no-one buys clothes in North America without being able to try them on :-D

Once having tried them, the powers-that-be in Marks heirarchy decided to install them in the UK.

I know that because I was here when Marks opened their first stores here in the early 1970s, had rotten sales, were finally told by "advisors" that the reason was the lack of fitting rooms, I saw the fitting rooms installed, and read reports that sales had greatly improved ........... and then we went back to the UK about 6 months later to find fitting rooms in Marks in Manchester and London.


I do disagree with you re the supremacy of the British retail system ............. I have had the luxury of being able to compare British, Canadian, American and even Australian! And the general attitude of many (certainly NOT all) floor attendants is worse in the UK. (edited to correct error!)

It's why so many companies have been taken over by foreign groups.


I worked in retail in the UK when much younger ............. so do have some basis for what to expect as a customer, but also on how retail people can fail their customers.

We have also had small business people in the family .... and learnt much from them.

I also read the business pages.


It is interesting to note that Tesco does not operate under that name in the US, where it is known as Fresh & Easy ........ and has not yet appeared in Canada under any name.

And also that M&S shares have dropped by 50% from their high in 2007 .... with a £6 billion bid offer being considered by some financial companies. There has been criticism of falling sales, particularly in women’s wear, and problems in the company’s supply chain.

There is very interesting reading on the internet re Marks success, or rather non-success!

They never had customer loyalty in Canada, quite frankly, because their clothes were so old-fashioned looking, showed lack of quality, and were expensive. The market here at that time was to people aged 15-30, they were the ones with spending power ................. and they voted with their feet. Even people double or triple that age stopped buying because Marks was so bad.


The only shops we now go into on our increasingly rare visits to the UK are small locally-owned ones ............. I got tired of rudery, poor selection and poor service many years ago. And that includes in Tesco and Marks!


This post will probably please you even less than my original post "challenging" your original statement ........ but that is something you have to get used to!

Is it at all possible that you do not like being challenged on your statements because you do not like being contradicted .......... especially by a person of the opposite sex :-D


If so .............. then you had better get used to being challenged on GR!


I have my wide ranging experiences as a customer ....... and they are at odds with yours from the other side.



I do note that you have already accused me of talking nonsense :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D




and for your future education ................. googling "saddo" shows that it means

"a pathetic or socially inept person; a nerd."

or

"someone thats doing something that isnt "cool"



not a word that I would use ......... bu I do know what it means. I just googled to make sure that I used the "official" version.



you do know about googling for information you do not know, don't you???

Well not just your opinion John:-) A gentleman called Ian also stated that he thought the new site was rubbish, rubbish, rubbish etc. etc.

I think we are all wonderful in our way, Rose. We all have faults and good points. I have more faults than good points myself, and I suspect it is too late to change much at 93.

I did feel it neccesary to state one or two of my good points as one or two of you were trying to make me out to be a worthless, patronising and rude person and I felt I had to defend myself a bit.

I am very good at one aspect of genealogy. It is my ability to really think outside the box. My mind is very undisciplined and wanders all over the place but I usually add something to a team. I admire Sherlock Holmes, and I think what I am suggesting is I am better than most people at deduction.

And I was not pleased when someone challenged my point about Britain having the best retail industry. It was simply an example to illustrate a point I was making. I believe our supremacy has been accepted in academia and elsewhere as being true (perhaps American might disagree), and companies like Tesco and Marks are very admired worldwide. More than in our cynical country, probably. I know retail knowledge has little or no relevance as far as genealogy is concerend - but I thought picking me up on that was really unnecessary. Just imagine how that lady would have felt if I had said she was talking nonsense about an area she was an expert in.

I will now admit my main fault to you all. My main fault has always been false humility :-) I have been helped quite a bit to overcome this fault on this thread.

"Saddo" was lost on me. Never heard expression before (probably a teenage word), and I thought lady was talking about herself anyway. Assume it means a sad, gentle and vulnerable creature ;-) :-) That's me to a tee.

Thanks very much for your remarks, Rose. Much appreciated.

And, no I don't like the new layout and dearly want the old tree format back. New layout is rubbish, rubbish, rubbish. But only my opinion.

I didn't dig through your posts John , I just 'noticed', as I read many of the threads, on the various boards.

"I can see it is a lifeline for those without much of a life for whatever reason,"

that sounded to me, if no one else, very like the patronising attitude of certain people who suggest that making comments on a website on a regular basis implies one needs to 'get a life' as the saying goes.

If this was not your intention then I apologise unreservedly for misjudging you.

However I DO still think you have been rather patronising to certain members, and rather fond of saying how wonderful you are yourself...that may well be 'tongue in cheek' but that can be misread in type without the tone of voice to accompany it :-D

Broken my word and decided to come back on.

I am of a generation who wrote letters and got a reply back in 6 months. Perhaps this way of communicating is all a bit quick and can be misinterpreted. And it can make us very emotional and angry - urggghhh!!!

I looked at what I had said by way of apology and thought I could not possibly have offended anyone by anything I had put in my apology. Yet now someone (Rose) is picking me up when I say "I can see that chat is useful for people who do not have much of a life"

I am sure one of you said something similar and I totally agreed with you earlier in this thread. There are people with disabilities, homebound, isolated, lonely. They are not as lucky as others and have a reduced quality of life. And chat threads with friends can mean an awful lot to them and broaden their horizons.

Why on earth did you criticise me for that, Rose Did I get a word wrong to upset you so much? Did I not use the right emoticon to show sincerity? I couldn't have been more sincere when I wrote that remark. Are you digging through my mails to see if there is something you can pick me up on perhaps.

I draw a line after each day and hold no grudges, I promise :-0 ;-) :-) <3 :-S

it was, Everyone would like the friendly Genes back,its still a giggle sometimes. Bye the Bye, as you have been in Oz for so long and lost (Almost " the Lilt, Would that make you a "COR or a GI ?" pmsl. :-D :-D :-D :-D ;-)