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The Queens Mother In Law - last night

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

SueMaid

SueMaid Report 24 Aug 2012 23:20

You're very touchy, John and you really are very keen to point out where others are wrong and that they serve a dire penance for their mistakes. Can't really be worth the effort surely.

ChrisofWessex

ChrisofWessex Report 24 Aug 2012 23:25

When I read the posting of 23.03 I thought 'how sad' that a grown man should take such trouble to prove he is right.

As you appear to like accuracy - re your statement that the Duchess was around 40 when she married - she was engaged in August 1935 and married in the Private Chapel in Buckingham Palace on 6 November 1935 aged 34.

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 24 Aug 2012 23:42

Agree with that, SueMaid :-D Not worth the effort. But do not want to exact a dire penance - just to say what she wrote was wrong.

Have said my piece. This was a post from Sharron on 22 Aug just after I had referred to Queen's mil as Princess Alice. I think I was fairly factual and restrained when I responded to Sharron's post and expected an acknowledgement from Sharron.

48 hours later - still no response. So I followed that up. And then a short forest fire followed by "go away".

I have flared up a bit, and would probably just ignore it on another day.

But I would ask this, and it is a genuine question. Shouldn't the experienced contributors to this board be a little more careful what they write? Particularly if their purpose in writing is to correct something another lister has written.

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 24 Aug 2012 23:56

Thanks for that, Chris :-D Sorry, my mistake :-(

I knew that Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester had had her children quite late in life. I also said Prince William was in his 20's when he was killed. He was 30. Oops :-( I remember the incident fairly well, which was in front of crowds at an air show near Wolverhampton.

I was hoping for a response from Sharron in those 48 hours after the "she was Princess Andrew, not Princess Alice" post. It may seem sad to you, but I would say it is just good manners to apologise if you so obviously get something wrong.

And if the boot was on the other foot......

ChrisofWessex

ChrisofWessex Report 25 Aug 2012 12:24

Now then John have just switched on wondering if you had picked up on my deliberate mistake - but you have not.

Alice, Duchess of Gloucester was born on 25 December 1901 - therefore she was 33 on her wedding day.

Duke of Kent married the previous year - there was a scramble in mid thirties by the Royal Family to get the three bachelor sons safely married in order to clamp down on the rumours.

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 25 Aug 2012 13:06

Chris

Thanks for that. Not much of a detail merchant myself, so would not have spotted that was a year or so out. Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester was always in the extended royal groups till about 15 years ago. I knew she was still alive when Queen Mum died but she was over 100 then and had not been seen outside Barnwell (in East Northants) for quite a long time. So doubt she had the quality of life of Queen Mum's latter years.

As for the other Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, she was a very interesting lady. But not really in the public psyche. Less in the public eye and mind than even Princess Alice of Battenberg, I would say. When my generation (born 1940's) mentions Princess Alice, I think we usually mean Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester (1901-2004). Even anti-royalists tend to like the Gloucesters (ordinary and nice like a Danish pastry, and the old Duchess was always with her son and his family and was equally loved and admired).

I think you should follow up that point you made about Princess Alice and the Jewish family (families) she hid in WW2. Worth us all thinking about. Very brave lady. Using her deafness to such advantage - what a woman :-D :-D

Her great grandchildren (Wiils, Harry, Peter, Zara) have somebody to live up to. And she beat serious mental illness to achieve so much in life.

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 25 Aug 2012 18:36

Princess Alice of Battenberg is remembered in Israel on the Yad Vashen (hope that's right) memorial for Holocaust victims. She is one of those who are "righteous among the nations". Non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews.

Also on list are Oskar Schindler, Jacques Chirac, Queen Elisabeth of teh Belgians, Zoltan Bay and Major Frank Foley. And others from several countries. What a great honour!!!!

brummie46

brummie46 Report 25 Aug 2012 19:52

thanks John, thanks for that info.
Didnt realise that they were brother and sister, was trying to ascertain if they were inlaws.

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 25 Aug 2012 20:26

Glad to help, Brummie46.

Princess Alice (later Princess Andrew of Greece) was eldest of 4 children:
Mother Princess Victoria of Hesse
Siblings (in order of birth):
Queen Louise of Sweden
George Mountbatten, 2nd Marquess of Milford Haven
Louis Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma

Queen Louise of Sweden had no issue.
George Mountbatten had a son and daughter:
Lady Tatiana Elizabeth Mountbatten (Edinburgh, 16 December 1917 – Northampton, 15 May 1988)
David Mountbatten, 3rd Marquess of Milford Haven (12 May 1919 – 14 April 1970)
Louis Mountbatten had two daughters, who both appeared in the programme:
Patricia Mountbatten, 2nd Countess Mountbatten of Burma (born on 14 February 1924), sometime lady-in-waiting to Queen Elizabeth II, and
Lady Pamela Carmen Louise (Hicks) (born on 19 April 1929).

So Lady Tatiana Mountbatten, David Mountbatten, Patricia Mountbatten and Pamela Mountbatten were the only first cousins of Prince Philip. He had 4 sisters, one of whom (Cecilie) died tragically just before the war.

Margarita, Princess of Hohenlohe-Langenburg
Theodora, Margravine of Baden
Cecilie, Hereditary Grand Duchess of Hesse
Princess Sophie

Philip was at the funeral of Cecilie in the programme, and she was pregnant at time of death with her fourth child. These sisters cannot still be talked about, but they were lovely. And I wonder if Prince Philip attended their funerals also. And if the Royal Family keep in touch with their families? Perhaps still too soon?

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 26 Aug 2012 13:55

Further to Princess Alice of Battenberg (Princess Andrew) being a hero in Israel, was she not buried in Israel?

And it would be interesting to know what relationship she had after the war with her 3 surviving daughters (who all married Germans) and the 3 children of her daughter Cecilie who died in 1937. WW2 really split her family asunder.

ChrisofWessex

ChrisofWessex Report 26 Aug 2012 15:18

First interred here and then in 1988 her remains were interred at Church of Maria Magdalene, Gethsemane.

TessAkaBridgetTheFidget

TessAkaBridgetTheFidget Report 26 Aug 2012 18:16

Thanks for all that info. John.

I watched the program so saw the pictures of Cec.lie funeral.
Couldn't help but notice the men in Nazi uniform (Prince Philip's brothers-in-law, and Princess Alice's sons-in-law)
I wondered how they all got on in WW11.

Would be interested in what happened to Margarita, Theodora, Sophie and their children too.

You say that these sisters cannot be talked about. Can you tell us, why? and who says so?
Not trying to be rude, so hope it doesn't come over that way.

I really would like to know.


Tess

TessAkaBridgetTheFidget

TessAkaBridgetTheFidget Report 26 Aug 2012 19:00

Have been Googling. Found that Princess Ann. The Princess Royal born 1950 had Princes Alice (her paternal Aunt) and Princess Margarita, (eldest daughter of Princess Alice and Prince Andrew, first cousin of Ann) as God Mothers.

So the Alice was in contact with her daughter at that time, as were "our" Royal Family.

Elizabeth2469049

Elizabeth2469049 Report 26 Aug 2012 19:33

I've been googling too!
It was Princess Alice Countess of Athlone (who was the paternal aunt) who stood proxy godparent for Princess Alice (Andrew) - Princess Andrew was Anne's grandmother.

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 26 Aug 2012 20:00

I found those finds really fascinating. I think the Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone was the last surviving grandchild of Queen Victoria.

Tess. The reason I said it was difficult was because of the war. You remember those Germans in Fawlty Towers - don't mention the war.

I think our Royal Family have been very keen to promote their English and Scottish roots. And ties with Europe in various ways. Spain, Netherlands and Norway in particular. And I remember reading that at one time they had a French-only rule in the royal household for one day a week. If you didn't ask for something in French that day, you didn't get it. Confirmation please?

But German connections have been played down. The connections between Edward VIII and Germany have been suppressed. But I could not see Princess Alice (Princess Andrew) and Prince Philip not keeping in touch with these 3 girls and their husbands and their children (and the husband and 3 children of the tragic Cecilie).

I hope it is a very interesting story to be told now that we are almost friends with Germany again. Just need to stop Ian Hislop from impersonating the German Ambassador first.

There are so many jokes about the Royal Family being German. Yet where were our monarchs from as far back as Quen Victoria born? Where was the mother of the Queen born. Prince Philip was born on the island of Corfu, but his mother Princess Alice was born in England.

They could all play for England or Scotland football team (Prince Philip because his mother was born in England). How many of them would qualify to play for Germany possibly only Philip. They are probably a lot more British than most members of the National Front

TessAkaBridgetTheFidget

TessAkaBridgetTheFidget Report 27 Aug 2012 00:57

Hi John, as someone with English, Irish, Welsh and Scotish roots, but born in Germany, (I really was).
I could play for anyone too. Except that I am usless at all spotrs.
Love watching, and shouting at football matches, athletics etc. but useless at playing!

It's a family joke that Germany's Angela Merkle (spl?) was named after my sister!


Thanks for that info. What a shame Princess Andrew (aka Alice) wasn't able to be there. I hope that her daughte rMargarita, made a personal appearance.


Tess

TessAkaBridgetTheFidget

TessAkaBridgetTheFidget Report 27 Aug 2012 01:02

Hi John, as someone with English, Irish, Welsh and Scotish roots, but born in Germany, (I really was).
I could play for anyone too. Except that I am usless at all spotrs.
Love watching, and shouting at football matches, athletics etc. but useless at playing!

It's a family joke that Germany's Angela Merkle (spl?) was named after my sister!

Elizabeth,
Thanks for that info. What a shame Princess Andrew (aka Alice) wasn't able to be there. I hope that her daughter Margarita, made a personal appearance.


Tess

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 27 Aug 2012 09:15

Fidget

Thanks for that. Come to think, a lot of US citizens were born in East Anglia and a lot of Brits were born in Germany - so football teams could look very different in future.

I must look at the old royal albums again because there were and are close ties with these German nieces and nephews. The youngest of the 4 sisters was Princess Sophie (1914-2000). I think she was godmother of Prince Edward and she visited the Queen and Prince Philip regularly till her death 12 years ago. A very handsome lady, she looked a lot like Philip. And she had loads of children (9, I think) - most of whom are alive today.

Cecilie, Hereditary Grand Duchess of Hesse (the third of the 4 daughters of Princess Alice and Prince Andrew of Greece) had 3 children and was 8 months pregnant and flying to Britain in 1937. She and her husband had joined the Nazi Party 6 months earlier.

Plane hit a factory chimney near Ostend and all were killed. Two of her three children, her husband, herself and her baby was stillborn. Her one remaining child was adopted within the family but died of meningitis a couple of months before start of WW2.

If you think this is the stuff of novels, Jeffrey Archer seems to have beaten us to it. Apparently, this disaster is the the subject of his book "Matter of Honour"

Sharron

Sharron Report 15 Oct 2012 15:05

This has been shown again.

I just wondered if anybody else caught it second time around.

Sharron

Sharron Report 1 Nov 2012 09:14

nudge