General Chat

Has anyone got any views about the Synod in England voting against women Bishops last night?

I can see both sides of the argument. On one side, we have equality in law between men and women in most matters now. And women have been allowed to be priests for some years now, just denied the highest offices. And the Bible mentions man, but I would interpret that to mean "mankind". The male dominated early church reflected male dominated society.

On the other side, the Apostle Paul clearly says men and women are equal in eyes of God, but also lays down clear roles for both sexes within the church. But, again, was that reflecting society then rather than being for nowadays.

Personally, I was against women priests and bishops some years ago. I thought it was only acceptable when no suitable man stepped forward to take on the role. On balance, I think it would be the best move forward now. And a lovely lady Bishop in the New Zealand church has persuaded me further this morning.

Any thoughts anybody?

From the recesses of an A level RE memory, wasn’t the St Paul comment about women being silent in one of his Letters? How do we know if he wasn’t referring to women gossiping, rather than contributing as equals to the Service of Worship?

If his Letters were the basis of the theological argument, then surely they were his opinions, not words of Jesus?

How do we know what Jesus really said? What does Mathew, Mark and Luke report? How accurate are those Gospels, bearing in mind they were the result of oral tradition, and possibly littered with translation errors from centuries ago? John is a different kettle of fish and a much more scholarly Gospel, written, I seem to recall, after the first 3.

Regardless if the above is correct, the Ballot was lost by 6 votes in the House of Laity. So at least the Church has had to listen to and abide by the views of the parishioners. It’s a shame that the majority needed aren’t as opened minded as the Clergy. Everyone should be equal in the eyes of their God, so why shouldn’t women be Bishops?

What I feel is that if you 'allow' women priests then you must surely allow women bishops, anything else is just half measures and doesn't make sense,I also believe that teachings from the bible are from a completely male orientated society in which women were virtually irrelevant and wouldn't have been even remotely considered for ANY position of authority in any circumstances, and therefore not an issue one way or the other. However, this attitude has little or no relevence in the modern world, so I cannot understandwhat the fuss is about, and I say all this from the point of view of an Anglo Catholic!

l think women should be bishops:))
They should have the same rights as a man has and maybe they would'nt be so lenient with rev/vicars etc that abuse children.

just a thought!!

jude

One should also remember the early Roman Catholic Church went through all the Gnostic Codex's and destroyed some. These were the books of all the disciples.

This could easily have been a form of censorship so they delveloped a church that they approved of.

One of the gospels destroyed was Mary Magdala or Magdalene, she was a disciple.

Parts of several Coptic copies of Mary's book have been found and it is believed her book was in widespread use at one time.

Religion has been used to subjucate woman. Why else would Mary have been demoted and Paul the misogynist been given such a high profile.

It's all in the translation, who did it and why.



:-(

While I don't know enough about the subject to give an intellectual answer, I certainly agree that religion over the spectrum has been and still is used as a means to subjugate women,so I think we all know the answer to your question PatinCyprus!!!

When I woke up and saw the news this morning I was genuinely shocked and disgusted.

The Church of England knows it is losing members and here they had a real chance to show people that they could move with the times and still be relevant in the 21st century. And a small minority decided to ruin that.

I also think its strange that most people who opposed it are 'Anglo-Catholics', ie. Anglicans who lean towards Catholic beliefs. I'm not a religious expert, but I thought the Church of England was created to be DIFFERENT to the Catholic Church?! If you have Catholic beliefs why not join the Catholic Church?

Matthew

If you believe in bronze age belief systems then you should stick to those beliefs. I applaud it. Keeps the church where it belongs - firmly in the past and rapidly fading away to nothing.

That, of course, is merely my own opinion :-D

How can these bishops not allow women in the church of england have equal right, yet they will sit in the house of lords and vote on legistalation on equal rights for women , its just double standards, and they wonder why people are deserting the church. Reap what you sow

It's not the Bishops who won't allow women equal rights, it's the laity, and then only by a very small majority;the Bishop's and Clergy voted in favour.

Bishops garbs are soo old fashioned but brocade is the must have for this season.
Bad hats don't help.
Catholic , Protestant, C of E .. whatever , all religions have taken a part in repressing women since the year dot
They are out dated , controlling ,patronizing and full of hypocrosy
loaded with wealth but constantly preach about giving to the poor and needy while wearing gold cloth .

So the ordination of women bishops was opposed on theological grounds.

Although that obviously doesn't include the bit in Romans 2:11 - "For God does not show favouritism."

Ironic that the Catholic Church hasn't even considered women priests - after all, Mary's a woman, and a few women may have stopped a number of priests from pursuing their inappropriate activities

Ironic that the Catholic Church hasn't even considered women priests - after all, Mary's a woman, and a few women may have stopped a number of priests from pursuing their inappropriate activities

This is total hypocrisy. Everything we are told about equality, discrimination and equal rights can just be ignored by the church while everyone else has to obey the rules. Either the rules and laws apply to everyone the same or they are totally invalid and should be scrapped.

What a super thread to come home to tonight. By biggest suprise was seeing Eldrick post on this thread. A warm welcome back - I know just how much many of us (even me) have missed you. I know you have quite a different belief system to me :-D ;-) But I will try hard to not fall out:-D

It is very clear to me that the English Bishops (all men) wanted women on board. Rowan Williams and the new chap (Justin Welby) were extremely disappointed. There was an emergency meeting of senior people this morning, but have not heard if they have found a way forward.

I am surprised that the laity was not sufficiently in favour (probably about 70% pro and only a handful of votes short of requirement).

It's quite a simple thing, at least from my perspective. Hearing various interested parties on the news saying things like 'its not gods will' or 'he has revealed his will to us' just puts into perspective the utter idiocy of the whole thing.

He gives men free will to kill, rob, rape, abuse and inflict all sorts of hideous things on each other and never utters a dicky bird. But when it comes to allowing women to fulfil a manufactured role in the manufactured hierarchy of a manufactured belief system (remember Henry VIII?) he makes his will known. So everything else pales into insignificance alongside allowing women to be bishops. What utterly absurd rubbish.

One slight error, John – I don’t have a different belief system – I just don’t have ANY belief system! Apart from the one that believes in a level playing field for everyone regardless of sex, skin colour or pace of birth. Which sure gives me the moral high ground over ‘The Laity’. But we won’t fall out about it I’m sure.
:-D

I am with Eldrick. :-D

Waving to Eldrick ~~~~~~ ;-)



Cx

Welcome back, Eldrick