General Chat

Aww, that so brought a little tear to my eye. Just wait till i show it to stan. You may be chief most revered lady of the land from now on. With special dispensation to drink babycham and cinzano with lime on certain occasions. Bless you.

You must be downright cream crackered John - you actually responded to my post for a change :-0 :-0 :-D :-D

Oh Lawdy, lawdy Island. never thought I would live to see the day. The shock has sent me Blood Pressure, sky high. OH is wafting me down with a copy of The Sporting Life.
Will have to lie down, for health reasons, you know. Possibly have a medicinal Brandy or three. LOLOL

Julia in Derbyshire

For Stan:

Our penguin, which art in Antartica
Frozen be thy home.
Thy wings wont come.
Thy will walk on earth,
As will your brethren.
Give us this day our daily krill.
And forgive us our lunges,
As we forgive them that lunge against us.
And lead us not into the equator,
But deliver us from seals.
For thine is the icicle,
The iceberg and the ennui,
For jester and jester.
The End

Actually, i thnk the last two smiley people who knocked might stll be here.....now where did i put them? Hmmmm. Thanks for reminding me. I'll have a bit look round the mansion when i get back from evening worship and dominoes. See, our little chats are sooooo useful.

Did you know the first line of jimi hendrixes watchtower diitty is 'there must be some kind of way out of this place'? Spooky, eh! Must be a sign - i'll ask stan later what he thinks.

Worn down, Island. Must go out for some mental refeshment. And to discuss things with Christian friends who do not have a set of values based on Jimi Hendrix and Pingu :-( :-(

Waves white flag :-(

Hurrah! Looks like Cocoa pops has conceded defeat :-D :-D :-D

Black Knight

I sure preferred 1962 to 2012. And probably would have liked 1762 even more :-D

Eldrick. Not worth continuing this discussion. Clearly you have not read all that much apart from what you have written yourself or was written by your guru Pingu (Dawkins?)

If you ever open your front door when someone knocks, it will either be a Chinese takeaway for the wrong house, a pizza delivery or two very smiley and gracious people who talk to you about which side you will be on in the Battle of Armageddon and give you a wonderfully researched booklet (absolutely free) called the Clocktower. :-D Edit Watchtower :-D

John for many years women have taken good care of men. you know the old saying... Behind every good man is a good women. Me being a man will never understand women but I do know for many years women have been able to handle men with out even trying some times. lol
The fact is that in many jobs women can do them better then men. I think if you honestly belive a women can't heal a mans wounds then maybe you should think about who healed mens wounds in the middle of many wars. You don't seem to grasp things that happen in real life very well. Take your head out of what ever time in history you live in & let me welcome you to the year 2012. :-D

Off for my dinner now ttfn

I never said that. What article are you referring to? And what is the watchtower? So many questions, so little time, sigh.

Ps are you talking about that jimi hendrix classic when you mention watchtower?respect.

Eldrick Totally confused now. So you do actually have religion and a faith-based set of values. Is your god Stan a penguin? What penguin smokes cigarettes, or does your free will mean that you do not have to follow Stan's example.

I am sure I have seen your article in Watchtower. Yes, could you send me the relevant copy.

It sounds a very nice religion and I am pleased that no herbal drugs are allowed. What about cannabis for medical conditions? Is that allowed? When you said no adulterous women should be stoned, I thought you meant..... ;-)

Well 5EXY, I doubt anyone does not believe - that a woman can wield a sword and beat h*ll out of people in battle.

But being a bishop requires different skills. And up till now, the women (the Laity) of the Church of England) are not so confident that their fellow women can heal the wounds inflicted in battle.

The men advise them differently. Thye have ignored their advice. Sound familiar?

No, i'll stick with stan the penguin. He suits me just fine and is just as believable as any of the rest of them. Plus he's quite cute and i could merchandise cuddly toys from him. I mean who would want a cuddly toy of an old man in a beard who lived in a smelly mud hut before sanitation and personal hygeine were very high on anyones agenda. Tsk. The dirty fingernails, urghhhh.

My offer stands, come to a prayer meeting of stanites. We even allow smoking on the grounds that a ban would be a breach of our honestly held beliefs. No herbal substances, though.

Women Knights in the Middle Ages

Were there women knights in the Middle Ages? Initially I thought not, but further research yielded surprising answers. There were two ways anyone could be a knight: by holding land under a knight's fee, or by being made a knight or inducted into an order of knighthood. There are examples of both cases for women.
Female Orders of Knighthood
The Order of the Hatchet

There is a case of a clearly military order of knighthood for women. It is the order of the Hatchet (orden de la Hacha) in Catalonia. It was founded in 1149 by Raymond Berenger, count of Barcelona, to honor the women who fought for the defense of the town of Tortosa against a Moor attack. The dames admitted to the order received many privileges, including exemption from all taxes, and took precedence over men in public assemblies. I presume the order died out with the original members.

Here is a description taken from Ashmole, The Institution, Laws, and Ceremony of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1672), Ch. 3, sect. 3:

"The example is of the Noble Women of Tortosa in Aragon, and recorded by Josef Micheli Marquez, who plainly calls them Cavalleros or Knights, or may I not rather say Cavalleras, seeing I observe the words Equitissae and Militissae (formed from the Latin Equites and Milites) heretofore applied to Women, and sometimes used to express Madams or Ladies,though now these Titles are not known.

"Don Raymond, last Earl of Barcellona (who by intermarriage with Petronilla, only Daughter and Heir of King Ramiro the Monk, united that principality to the Kingdom of Aragon) having in the year 1149, gained the City of Tortosa from the Moors, they on the 31 of December following, laid a new Siege to that place, for the recovery of it out of the Earls hands. The Inhabitants being a length reduced to gread streights, desired relief of the Earl, but he, being not in a condition to give them any, they entertained some thoughts of making a surrender. Which the Women hearing of, to prevent the disaster threatning their City, themselves, and Children, put on mens Clothes, and by a resolute sally, forced the Moors to raise the Siege.

"The Earl, finding himself obliged, bythe gallentry of the action, thought fit to make his acknowlegements thereof, by granting them several Privileges and Immunities, and to perpetuate the memory of so signal an attempt, instituted an Order, somewhat like a Military Order, into which were admitted only those Brave Women, deriving the honor to their Descendants, and assigned them for a Dadge, a thing like a Fryars Capouche, sharp at the top, after the form of a Torch, and of a crimson colour, to be worn upon their Head-clothes. He also ordained, that at all publick meetings, the women should have precedence of the Men. That they should be exempted from all Taxes, adn that all the Apparel and Jewels, though of never so great value, left by their dead Husbands, should be their own.

"These Women (saith our Author) having thus aquired this Honor by their personal Valour, carried themselves after the Military Knights of those days." Jeanne Hachette, who fought to repel a Burgundian assault on the town of Beauvais in 1472. The King exempted her from taxes, and ordered that, in an annual procession to commemorate the event, women would have precedence over men. This story seems to be a carbon copy of the Order of the Hatchet story...

In Italy, the Order of the glorious Saint Mary, founded by Loderigo d'Andalo, a nobleman of Bologna in 1233, and approved by pope Alexander IV in 1261, was the first religious order of knighthood to grant the rank of militissa to women. This order was suppressed by Sixtus V in 1558.

In the Low Countries, at the initiative of Catherine Baw in 1441, and 10 years later of Elizabeth, Mary and Isabella of the house of Hornes, orders were founded which were open exclusively to women of noble birth, who received the French title of chevalière or the Latin title of equitissa. In his Glossarium (s.v. militissa), Du Cange notes that still in his day (17th c.), the female canons of the canonical monastery of St. Gertrude in Nivelles (Brabant), after a probation of 3 years, are made knights (militissae) at the altar, by a (male) knight called in for that purpose, who gives them the accolade with a sowrd and pronounces the usual words.

In England, ladies were appointed to the Garter almost from the start. In all, 68 ladies were appointed between 1358 and 1488, including all consorts. Though many were women of royal blood, or wives of knights of the Garter, some women were neither. They wore the garter on the left arm, and some are shown on their tombstones with this arrangement. After 1488, no other appointments are known, although it is said that the Garter was granted to a Neapolitan poetess, Laura Bacio Terricina, by Edward VI. In 1638, a proposal was made to revive the use of robes for the wives of knights in ceremonies, but it came to nought. (See Edmund Fellowes, Knights of the Garter, 1939; and Beltz: Memorials of the Order of the Garter).

Unless otherwise noted, all the above is from the book by H. E. Cardinale, Orders of Knighthood, Awards and the Holy See, 1983. The info on the order of the Hatchet is reproduced elsewhere as well, e.g., a Spanish encyclopedia. I have seen the order of glorious Saint Mary discussed elsewhere, but without mention of women. I have yet to identify the orders of the Hornes family.
Women in the Military Orders

Several established military orders had women who were associated with them, beyond the simple provision of aid. The Teutonic order accepted consorores who assumed the habit of the order and lived under its rule; they undertook menial and hospitaller functions. Later, in the late 12th century, one sees convents dependent on military orders are formed. In the case of the Order of Saint-John (later Malta), they were soeurs hospitalières, and they were the counterparts of the frères prêtres or priest brothers, a quite distinct class from the knights. In England, Buckland was the site of a house of Hospitaller sisters from Henry II's reign to 1540. In Aragon, there were Hospitaller convents in Sigena, San Salvador de Isot, Grisén, Alguaire, headed each by a commendatrix. In France they are found in Beaulieu (near Cahors), Martel and Fieux. The only other military order to have convents by 1300 was the order of Santiago, which had admitted married members since its foundation in 1175. and soon women were admitted and organized into convents of the order (late 12th, early 13th c.). The convents were headed by a commendatrix (in Spanish: commendadora) or prioress. There were a total of six in the late 13th century: Santa Eufenia de Cozuelos in northern Castile, San Spiritu de Salamanca, Santos-o-Vello in Portugal, Destriana near Astorga, San Pedro de la Piedra near Lérida, San Vincente de Junqueres. The order of Calatrava also had a convent in San Felices de los Barrios.
and thirteenth centuries,' Studia Monastica 1987 (vol. 29).

Women Knights

Medieval French had two words, chevaleresse and chevalière, which were used in two ways: one was for the wife of a knight, and this usage goes back to the 14th c. The other was as female knight, or so it seems. Here is a quote from Menestrier, a 17th c. writer on chivalry: "It was not always necessary to be the wife of a knight in order to take this title. Sometimes, when some male fiefs were conceded by special privilege to women, they took the rank of chevaleresse, as one sees plainly in Hemricourt where women who were not wives of knights are called chevaleresses."


So in my view if a women was allowed to become a Knight way back in 1149, women should be allowed to become Bishops in 2012. We do have a Queen after all

Eldrick From no religion and no solution to what happens to us after death you are shifting to this worship of Stan.

Aer you therefore religious or a-religious? I think you should own up that you are a follower of Stan who places women in high places.

Yesterday you were worshipping a Penguin. Tomorrow, will you be worshipping a deity who is lifted up so high that the greatest telescopes on earth cannot catch sight of Him?

There are many religions or sects of a kind who wear frocks and garb that wont accept women into the fold and never have done, because its felt there is no place for them, a none equal,,,isnt that being oppressive & sexist and setting down in-rules that cant be changed.? its just a fact thats accepted by all its members and never questioned or fought against.,,,,outside these they proclaim women are equal...double standards.....mind churches/religion/sects for centuries have had double standards.

Is the church afraid of domination from a Mrs Bishop..




;-) :-D :-D :-D

Sorry, you cant use the words moses and seriously in the same sentence. Its an affront to the english langwidge.

Now theres a thought - making up a religion. I wonder if anyone has tried that one before? I think the religion of Stan with the mad hat is as good as any. Would you like to come to indoctrination I mean classes? Women are allowed in high posts as Ladies of the Land, so no problems with that aspect of it.

Eldrick

I can only discuss Moses seriously with you if you give me the chapter and verse from the Bible to which you are referring.

Otherwises, I cannot accept you are stating facts ;-) You seem to be making up a new and wondrous religion which will probably gain followers - but not me, howveer much I like you :-)

Yes, you are right, Moses probably had an ipad, maybe a playstation as well. Absolutely. Don't know where u get the kindle from, but if he had an ipad he would just have had the kindle ap so no need for the amazon one..

I think he probably got the ipad from the aliens that abducted him and probed him to an inch of his life, poor chap. Personally speaking though, I think he spent his life playing with muddy sticks and having games of cricket against the pharoahs using camel dung as a ball and dinosaur thigh bones as a bat, but I suppose if he had a wii thingy then he would never have had to come out of his mud hut.

I wonder if he visited ancient internet sites of a dubious adult nature on his pc? Do you know if that was the case? just asking, that's all.

I dream of people giving me material like this. Who needs a straight man! :-)

I feel a story coming on. Moses and a fat plumber with a moustache being the main characters........hmmmm. Yes, I have the plot now, which is more than I can say for some!

Eldrick. You assume Moses did not have a pc. You agree he had tablets and a kindle. But you have not read much literature or sceince from those days, I suspect.

DO NOT ASSUME. It can make an ASS out of U and ME :-)