General Chat

Sylvia,

Would you care to explain your comment:

I did post last night (very early this morning UK time) that I was disgusted at the way the thread had been taken over by people posting on here solely for the purpose of harassing John.

That included others, as well as backwards Sylvia .........

............. they made no contribution to any aspect of the topic, other than to belittle John


I disagree with a lot of the assumptions he makes about others (and I include myself) in 'others'. Are we not allowed the right to challenged his perceptions?
He also makes many comments about the area we both live in and I find my experience is often poles apart from his when talking about the Valleys.

I have my views on religion and I will express them in my own fashion. I have vastly different experiences from John and I will state my point of view regardless of how it is accepted.

Sue

Edit: John you also pmd me re Sylvia (backwards) and I told you that you should not listen to what other people had to say when you first come to the boards, people have very old axes to grind)

You have also consistently provoked Sylvia with your comments, John.

Oh dear Ann, you should know the page numbers!


Naughty girl ;-)

Joeva as we now know, appointing women bishops is not as black & white as many of us would expect or hope for.

I have been brought up more or less with Racial and Sexual legislation and in the early days of my career it was perfectly legal to discriminate on grounds of sex and race. Not moral, but legal. By the end of my career, it was positive discrimination towards women and minorities. And it has been very recent that you cannot discriminate on grounds of age. I was told in 1990 at the age of 44 that I did not fit their "age profile for my level"

And the Church of England was granted exemption from some of these laws. And so were other institutions, I think. There was quite a stink when it was suggested that practising homosexuals could fight in the army, I seem to remember.

Jax You are quite right of course. I have tried to pm the lady or gentleman, but he or she has refused saying something along the lines "I have my debates in the open". I am told he/she is very nice and very kind by some posters and I have never taken any real notice till end of last week when he or she got a flurry of rr's. I was responsible for some of them and that was the first time I had ever felt the need to rr. :-( :-(

The positions of Bishops and other hierarchy in the Church goes back to the beginning of Christianity


I guess one could equate them to the Druid or other pagan religions, where there is usually a "head druid" or head priest in Egyptian temples.

There is actually no need, or reason, to make fun of the position of Bishop, as it does equate to other religions.


Not even the Roman Catholic Church was celibate in its entirety until the 7th century, and even then it took many years before all Catholic priests followed the rule .................. there were even many abbeys and convents that were "conhospitae", or mixed, until the 7th or even into the 8th century.

It was of course, Henry VIII who did away with the Catholic church as the religon in England ........... but his Anglican Church was very high, it was really only in name that it was not "catholic".

dashes upstairs for bible - page numbers please :-)

Fifty Shades of Grey was monotonous tripe!!!!

Glad you're OK Sue - slinging it down here - and they were switching the Christmas lights on in our village this evening :-(

Hi.....I'm not ignoring anyone but am going to chat to Eldrick for a mo....... :-D


I don't know if the word 'father' is a sticking point or not to be honest. We had a female cleric in this deanery who wished to be known as 'Father ------'. That went down like a lead balloon in some quarters.

When we do, eventually, get women bishops.......who knows what they will be called? Actually, I wonder if a new title will emerge, maybe one with an historical basis.


Now don't quote me on this, but although there were several women in the bible who were 'leaders' in their way...Priscilla for example, I don't think the word bishop was ever mentioned. Although it was a very male dominated society at the time, there were definitely strong minded women who held important positions and who made themselves heard.



And why are you asking me about the Pope? How do I know for heaven's sake......sigh. I can always ask our friendly RC priest when he next calls in for a coffee if you like.... :-D



Sex in the bible? Oh yes and lots of it.......and not all bad either...... ;-)

I did post last night (very early this morning UK time) that I was disgusted at the way the thread had been taken over by people posting on here solely for the purpose of harassing John.

That included others, as well as backwards Sylvia .........

............. they made no contribution to any aspect of the topic, other than to belittle John

He was very gracious in his response to me ..........

....... but the post seemed to go over the heads of the ones doing the belittling.

Invisible ink, I presume.

Or a refusal to accept what they were doing, and have been doing for months now.


Yes, John made some mistakes in his early postings.

Yes, John can be annoying

Yes, I do not always agree with what he says or how he says it ....... and I have told him so, on the boards in early days, and also in private by pm.


BUT England is still a country of free speech, or so I have long believed although I now sometimes doubt it

.................. and I defend his right to say what he wants, without bullying and harassment by ANYONE

Just as I would defend the right of anyone to have their say without discrimination or bullying.


I did not see either of the threads that backwards Sylvia is so aerated about ................. but I, for one, find her badgering boring, and close to very serious bullying.


and that is where I draw the line


I will in future report anyone who appears to be harassing or bullying anyone on this site, whether it be John or someone else.


I'm tired of seeing it ........ and disgusted by it.



sylvia

John, there you go again. Quoting stories from the bible as fact. It simply won't do my good man.

The point being that the written word without support is of little use and certainly cannot be taken literally, at best an indication of what MAY have been and in the case of the OT, a total load of utter garbage!

I point you to the hilarious book of mormon as a prime example! Or better still, the writings of L. Ron Hubbard and the cult of scientology! Should these be taken as being as relevant and accurate as the bible?

Joeva

I wasn't having a go at you!


Not sure why you named 'me' in your post?

Sorry Gins, I posted in on this thread to reply to a posting by Cynthia. John took it on himself to explain to me in a very condescending tone.

In fact I know that his original opening post was a topical question inviting others opinion on the subject of ' Women Bishops'. He seemed to express that although previously he decried this idea he had changed his thoughts and was not so convinced it would not ever come about.

Since then the thread twisted and turned through so many arguments and opinions that the original theme was lost.

It could have been a good debate, but at the end of the day , as they say, the subject got lost along the way !

Eldrick I think those large churches have found it easier to have levels of management like companies. And you have to give titles and reponsibilities and accountabilities. The early church was quite small in the first century. Some of the surviving apostles were probably amongst early bishops. From the first chapter of John's Revelation (last book of Bible) he mentions from his prison on Patmos the seven churches of Asia.

This is purely my own opinion, but I rather think that each of these 7 churches had a Deacon in charge who was under John, the Bishop. And I think two of the other early Bishops may have been two very rich and distinguished leaders in Israel and on the Sanhedrim (the 70-strong Jewish ruling council). These men were known by their Roman names Nicodemus and Josephus of Arimatheia. So in the first century the church would have only had two positions as defined in the letters of Paul.

Very important period in Christian history, but church was growing apace and not a huge amount written down. A lot was written by the Jewish historian Josephus, a kinsman of Nicodemus. But all I have seen of relevance is the fact that Nicodemus and Joseph of Aramethia survived after Pentecost but lost all their fabulous wealth and priviledges. No details of where they escaped to.

No Ann, I am fine thanks, OH says it's bad on the coast :-(

Thanks Cyn, its what I pretty much thought. Is the sticking point he word 'father'?

It does seem to me that the church is somewhat obsessed with gender division, is it not? I mean, the whole gay marriage thing, females in high posts, celibacy (ok, thats catholicism hahahahahahahaha) and so forth. Mind, el biblio is pretty obsessed wth sex as a whole I suppose so its understandable. Sex is bad but slavery is pretty cool :-)

But, joking apart, is there anything that says in the book that women cant be bishops? (or pope when it comes down to it?) I cant recall offhand, its so long since I read it. I do recall, however, that many of the objections to women bishops were based on outakes from the old testament. No comment is really needed on that aspect of the affair.

Oh, and Mr Mithras is always conveniently ignored or dismissed by christians, as are all the other jeezy like predecessors. To be fair, a number of theological scholars (is that an oxymoron?) have accepted that the fable of jesus is a compilation of the mythology of the times, which is not to say it's a bad thing by any means. It imposed order from a whole rats nest of beliefs and gave immense power to a small number of people and probably ensured a relatively peaceful short term solution to many of the problems of the day.

A bypass Jax

Is this the same Sylvia that used to follow people on the Genes facebook page and hound them until, most blocked her?

Shame we cannot do that on here

I saw both of those posts by John, and took it as a joke...maybe some people do not have a sense of humour

Island? Yes Eldrick is extracting the Michael from us......as is his wont....luckily, I'm used to him. :-D


Eldrick? I assume your question is genuine and not a leg-pull?

Oh well, in for a penny etc.....


Hadn't a clue what a mithra was until I googled and even now I couldn't really tell you. Looks as though it's something to do with Paganism though - so hardly my scene.



Bishops? Surely you know the answer to that question? Anyway, you asked......


Bishops are senior clergy who have the oversight of a diocese (also called a See). England is divided into two Provinces - Canterbury and York. Each Province is broken down into dioceses. There are 43/44 dioceses. Dioceses are then divided down into deaneries and deaneries are divided into parishes.



Bishops are usually ordinary clergy who are 'plucked from the ranks' so to speak, because they have special gifts/intellect etc. which are helpful pertaining to ministry and the outreach of the Gospel. Their spirituality may be outstanding, they may have special 'people skills', be excellent preachers or natural born leaders.



There are special committees who do the selecting and electing of Bishops and it's quite a complicated process as they try to find the right man (woman!!) for the post.



Each one of us (whether we like it or not) lives in a parish. Each Vicar, when he/she is inducted into a parish, is given the 'cure of souls' of those in the parish and swears allegiance to both the Queen and to his Bishop.



The Bishops, when they are enthroned, are named as the 'Father in God' to the clergy under him. It is to him they are supposed to turn when there is a problem etc. He gives leadership. He is the 'boss' of the Diocese and there are many calls on his time.



Naturally, all this is all steeped in history and tradition - not quite bronze age - but old nevertheless.

It's a good job this is a genealogical site where history is of interest and often much loved and respected. :-D

Island Were you referring to the comment you made about me saying I liked to listen to classical music when I walk in the hills.

If so, sorry. I have been out since you wrote that and I honestly thought I had caught up with the relevant posts.

I don't listen to much music and it tends to be a mood thing. These valleys are wonderful places to live and work and you do feel very close to nature. And yes, it is not always a good thing to stick things in your ears and block your senses to the noises of nature, But a great occasional pleasure is to listen to a masterpiece or even a piece of modern music in the right setting :-D

I have always thought that listening to classical music was cool. I wish I wasn't such an ignoramus about classical music and I love to talk to somebody who loves it. Remember Robin Ray (son of Ted Ray) - he had a fantastic knowledge and he was pretty cool :-D Must turn Radio Wales off occasionally when driving and tune to Classical FM.

Come on...John, is 'hounded'.......you should be ashamed of yourselves ( who ever you are)


I dont always think he posts with 'thought' but there is no need to 'bully' anyone




:-(

So is the rank structure dependant on ability, ambition, godliness or what? I dont really care what the bible says as it is just, as we know, a selected number of books, most of them contradictory, to portray what the council of nivea wanted it to.

Pass on Mithras? Why? Either you do or don't believe in him.Born of a virgin on the 25th December, 3 wise men, had a last supper, died on a cross, resurected at the spring equinox, did miracles...? All of which applied to appolonius of tyana, osiris, krishna and many others. I just find it interesting that one mythological figure has been singled out above others and is Jeezy in fact a mixture of all of these earlier figureheads?

Anyway, whatever, many of the earlier ones (not all, I grant you) did not preach misogyny in the same way as the abrahamic deities seem to have done. Is there a clue there?

I'm not sure what you mean by my OP and is it worth reading more, sorry.