General Chat

Barbra Here in South Wales, many of teh good long term jobs are with foreign-owned companies (Tata Steel, Ford, Bosch). No longer many Welsh companies.

And, when times get hard, they close part or all of their UK operations unless they get subsidies.

Senior people get a small wad and many have taken the opportunity to be self-employed. But that is in the service sector (taking on shops, post offices, carpet cleaning contracts, car scratch removal, window cleaning, taxi driving, bed & breakfast).

But all of that is usually lower paid. And service sector jobs feed off manufacturing, scientific and engineering jobs. It is like a pack of cards down here in S Wales. And lots and lots of human casualties.

We are proud if our children get 15 hours a week working on Morrison's tills earning £90 a week. 30 years ago, they could have earned equivalent of £300 easily in a mining or heavy engineering apprenticeship.

My eldest son had a good education worked from leaving school at 16 .he got a job week after he finished at school. he was made redundant christmas eve 4yrs ago .at the age of 40 ,he has a list of courses he attended ,?? but if you lose your self worth because of rejection .were do you get that back from .my oh & myself worked as did my mum !! .Dad worked till he was 72yrs old part time driver .dont forget that a lot of jobs in manufacturing have gone ,its call centres .now .when you look on the high street a lot of shops are shutting .& the big boys taking over .prophet before people i wont say anymore .good luck to all your familys hope you & yours keep working Bye for now Barbra

I remember 20 years ago that the Japanese system was for everyone to retire at 55 on sufficient to keep them. Not huge pensions, but sufficient.

That led to progression and their job was then released to young people effectively.

It was then possible to work for as long as you wanted in the same company. It was your right. But you had to accept a low basic wage (probably about £15k in our terms).

Cheap labour, perhaps. But some of us quite like working till very old age, some of us have had quite enough at 55 and have plenty of other fish to fry.

Mine could have have retired 2 years ago with 2 private pensions but he wants to work on I want him to retire...lolol

His employer cannot get enough staff who are qualified, so retired employees work shifts as 'trusted experts'. It isn't a job for youngsters because of the nature of his work. Plus they have to pass the courses they attend every year, not many youngsters could cope with the legal complexities invloved.

Most employees are ex forces, who can both apply and accept the discipline required.

...and my employee has little interest in my loyalty or efficiency - what they really want is a human conveyour belt - and I can't be bothered.

So does my OH
So do I
We can all go on till we are 140 now. But some of us want to bow out as long as we have the necessities of life in old age (which for me is food and warmth and the occasional meal out at Manoire aux Quatre Saisons, a very nice restaurant across the border in Oxon). ;-)

...but I WANT to retire, Sue :-|

I absolutely disagree with employers losing good employees at retirement age if they want to work on. Many of these oldies are extremely experienced in their field, have given years of service and know their own job inside out and can usually be seconded to another sector within the business.

To say these employees should be made to forcibly retire places the employer in a difficult position re training and the loss of productivity/efficiency and client loyalty.

Our ancestors didn't retire at a fixed age either, many had to continue to work as they had no pension provision.

rose tinted specs I think.

Maggie :-D :-D And no increase before 66 by sound of things :-(

My OH is 3 years older, works in local authority part time and expected, like you, to rest up at 60. Now it is 63.4 and - as you know with council work currently - it is usually very hard and deeply depressing to have to do a lot more months than you expected.

And it must block jobs for suitable young people.

I'm 56, hoped to retire at 60, now it's 66.

I would be more than willing to retire and let a youngster have my job - I've got an attic full of 'things' I will do when I have the time.

By the time I retire, I may not be able to get them out of the attic :-|

There must be something in the work ethic. How wonderful that they have all done well. Long may it continue.

I have been very lucky. Never out of work in 49 years. Three of those at Uni (does that count as work) and 18 months of forced idleness cos of serious illness 10 years ago. And my two children (30 and 27) have never been out of work officiallly. Son did go on a Prince of Wales course which boosted his confidence and his job prospects immensely.

I would certainly recommend one of those courses for any youngster that is hanging about and feeling depressed about life and wants to gain confidence. All sorts do those courses and it is a great leveller and wonderful in any job to be able to understand people and their needs in life better. :-)

hi John

my children have never been out of work since leaving collage.
my eldest has learning dis and quite bad epilepsy since the age of 12,but she goes to work 4 days a wk and has done since leaving collage age 18(shes now 31)
my sons age 28 and 24 have both worked since leaving collage they both had very good results in their GCSEs but decided higher education was not for them and went to work ,one is a trained butcher and the youngest a trained chef and a trained security guard(he works all day and then evenings and nights with the security firm)
our youngest daughter age 22 wanted to go to uni and was excepted to do a nursing degree,but three months before she was due to start,she found out she was expecting our lovely granddaughter(age2 now) so took a job as a supervisor in a icecream factory,shes now 34wks preg with her 2nd child and still working a 50hr wk,her husband does not want her working,but she says that if the goverment are going to pay her to be at home with her baby for 6months then its her duty to work for as long as she can.
I do believe children learn the work ethnic from their parents,myself and OHhave always worked,as have my parents and hubby"s parents(they are all retired now)
my husband on his days off looks after our granddaughter and grandson while their parents work,again saving the goverment money in childcare costs.
no one in this family has ever claimed benefits we are all healthy thank god,so if you can work,you work,we owe no one anything. :-)

Fascinating points have been made and have not really had a chance to read them all.

It is clear it is a problem that vexes us all. The mental side of not having work and losing pride and hope for the future is so important.

Education has let us down. We see these stats every year and every year (till last year) students were cleverer and cleverer. Yet they can't spell, can't add up and can hardly speak. And the world of teenage leisure can be very removed from the world of work.

And even if they are well educated, even graduates and post graduates cannot get decent jobs. A degree was more or less a guarantee of a job when I graduated in 1969.

I agree Supercrutch. I used to interview people 10 years ago for jobs in a large organisation. Most didn't really want a routine clerical job (even with a final salary pension!) and it showed. Some could hardly fill in an application form and you could pick holes in what some had put while trying to be clever. Others couldn't even look you in the eye, or string words together (after making allowances for any nerves!) How could you let people like these loose on your customers and represent your organisation. Desperate to get them to elaborate on any skills they might have you'd ask how they contributed at home, what did they do to help.........answer....NOTHING......mum does it all! They all had GCSEs as well.

Barbra I feel so sorry for your son. I don't think we get to hear enough of how the current situation is affecting those in their 50s without work. Brought up with a real work ethic and sense of responsibility to support yourself and your family it can be devastating to self esteem to be out of work.

The organisation I used to work for employed a lot of people who had some kind of disability. Some of the jobs they used to do were lost once the government started making cuts and centralising work.

Ann, your grandsons have the right attitude and deserve to get on and do well. Too many these days want it all now. don't want hard work and think they are above starting in a lowly way. They just don't get it that experience of any kind of work will be a stepping stone to what they want. Some of their parents encourage the same bad attitude as well.

I think David's reasoning was that perhaps more need the 'motivation' that comes from not being so comfortable out of work. There isn't need to do a job if you are bankrolled by parents and grandparents without making any effort yourself and you can manage without working.

Engineering? We had lots of engineering here in the Midlands in the 70s. Companies were booming selling hosiery and shoe manufacturing machinery abroad. Then once they had bought the machines abroad, guess what, they started exporting the shoes and clothing they made with the machines back to us, but much cheaper than we could make them of course. Then the shoe and hosiery manufacturing companies started to close down as they couldn't compete with the cheap imports either in this country or abroad. Now a lot of those buildings have become flats.

Most of the jobs in this area seem to be in call centres, as carers or in education.

My step-son's partner is a 'foreigner'. She went to university here and has never been out of employment since, in the IT industry. I'm sure she keeps half the boutiques and shoe shops of Berkshire afloat :-D.

Maybe a letter to your local paper is called for Dawnie :-)

my eldest after her A levels couldnt get a job hated signing on so when she was offered an apprenticeship at stables took it even though it was less money than Dole meant she had to get up and loved doing her job.

3 Years later she is still there as an apprentice and has gained so much experience and now changed college she does apprenticeship with so she can carry on, and has gained enough exams to start teaching as well.

Because she has Just moved out she knew her and boyfriend wouldnt cope on his wage and her apprentice wage £50 a week dont go far, so she applied to be a carer which she got and went on training course etc and passed with flying colours all of which was unpaid so took holiday from usual job to do and paid for her own CRB check. Has now been waiting weeks to hear when her paid shadow training starts, had a call the other day saying delay was because her college she did A levels at wouldnt do a reference??? all other education establishments have as have her character ones and work. The top dogs have now agreed the dont have to wait for it due to her other ones

Thought colleges would want to help young people get into employment it looks good for them but not this one hsa cost her a few weeks wages which she needs right now with a new home. Can see why youngsters cant be bothered if they arent going to get the help they deserve.

I think we know we are no longer young but it is nice to be polite.

I too feel strongly about the employment situation. I have three grandsons aged 24, 23 and 20. The eldest is not doing too badly so far, he didn't go to uni and went to an agency who sent him to an insurance firm. He impressed them with his work ethic and took him on permanently. He was poached by another insurance firm and has since had a promotion because he works and tries hard. He is very fortunate as his parents helped them (he and his girlfriend) get on the housing ladder, they bought a wreck of a house and again they were fortunate as her father is a plumber/builder and helped do the house up. But boy did the young couple work hard on it too. Grandson has paid his parents back the money they lent him about 2.5 years ago. Grandson is now married and his wife is a nursery assistant at the hospital creche.

Second grandson, left uni with a 2.1 degree (not sure in what, he was going into teaching but changed his mind and his degree halfway through). He was at uni in Plymouth, again his parents lent him money and helped with a mortgage on a flat as he wanted to stay in that area. He has been unable to get permanent work but has, since he left uni and before, worked as a pizza delivery driver, but has also made sure he was in the right place when the boss was short staffed and needed someone to work the oven, work the till, cash up etc. He is paying back the money his parents lent him and his girlfriend has now moved in to help with the bills. He is still looking for other better work. His girlfriend works in the woollen mill carding.

Youngest (these are all brothers). He is still at Uni but also works 47 hours a week as a pizza delivery driver (did you know people order pizzas at 3.30 in the morning). He want to go on and do a masters but he gives up part of his holidays to go on digs voluntarily (he is studying archaeology).

I am not saying this to say how good they are but to demonstrate that youngsters can have a good work ethic if they have support from the home. Of course it also helps if the parents are (not necessarily rich) but in the position of being able to help a bit financially. since they were all old enough to have a paper round they have always gone and got themselves jobs, from the paper round to working in the paper shop, working in a pub, working in Debenhams at Christmas. Eldest even worked in a pastie franchise shop where he was treated like slave labour.

I will just say this on imigrants .they will work for lower wages .& do mundane jobs .to earn money .one ukraine man was a kitchen hand & 6yrs later is an assistant manager in a fast food chain ,care homes employ a lot foreign people & they cant speak english so its a very complex & difficult situation which needs addressing my late father was in three homes & i speak from experiance dealing with members of staff .this debate could go on for ever ..Thank you for your kind comments for my son .we live in hope Barbra x ps we have the knowledge of life & its ups & downs oldies but goodies :-D

I feel very strongly about this due to having two very hard working teenagers. My son is going to university in september in the hope of getting a good well paid job.
He expects to have a debt of £45,000. I just hope it all pays off for him & all the other young people.
No offence calling the seniors old, but they are no longer young ;-)