General Chat

Sorry, Eldrick. That is right about recent milk protests. I was thinking of claims they had a price cartel on all products. That was investigated a few years ago.

When I was in supermakets (17 years ago now) milk was one of three key prices (bread and sugar were others) that mosl customers knew for all shops in their area. Very sensitive. People would have rather paid 45p for milk and total "shop" came to £100 than pay 48p for milk and total shop came to £95.

So buyers had to be both particularly hard on milk farmers and manufacturers and had to sell at a very keen price with low or negative margins. Pushing efficient milk farmers out of business is hardly in the interests of customers or supermarkets.
:-(

Gins Yup!!! I would prefer yo buy a British car and a British TV. Even better, Welsh ones. And I would pay more. I always try to buy Welsh organic milk, for example. But 58p a pint - and you can still get it in Asda for 45p. And a couple of gallons in Farm Foods and Lidl for about 15p (I exaggerate slightly) ;-)

Supermarkets do fix prices for all fresh produce and they dictate the shape, size, weight and colour of fruit and vegetables. The farmer suffers the loss if his crop doesn't measure up to the ridiculous 'standard' they set. The bend in a cucumber or courgette, the straight carrot, the apple without a single blemish.

When we bought the farm we could have purchased milk quotas at 'giveaway prices'. There was a millionaires club near us....that was farmers who owed more than £1m.

Anyway, as Eldrick said and many others before him, without a manufacturing industry in the UK we will never have enough jobs to provide everyone with employment.

Also our education system has been screwed up by abolishing grammar and secondary/technical modern schools. One level of education cannot suit all.

Once the job centre adopts the interviews sat in front of a video link to an advisor in a central offfice there will be less chance of anyone finding a job. The advisor will never have met the applicant and will be distanced so much easier to 'put them in their place' for not having looked hard enough for a job! We all know the consequences of that.

Please don't think it's just youngsters that cannot get work, the over 40s are finding it difficult too.

John

Your post was about unemployment....

I must be writing in invisible ink....I’ll leave you to it ;-)

Don't go Gins! :-D

Sue I think job centres try to lead, instead of trying to understand what employers want and provide them with a jobs service.

Most half decent jobs never see a job centre. I used to hate interviewing via job centres. I would specify exactly what I wanted in the traditional "must have", "should ideally have" and "in no circumstance must he or she have". They would shortlist as many as 20 for my job and at least half would have contras ie they could not get to the job at the start time, they were too old (in days when you could discriminate on age), they were not smart or clean, they had had no experience of any work etc.

But job centres could then say that 20 people had been interviewed, some of whom had been out of work for many months. I was a businessman, not a welfare counsellor. What an unnecessary waste of several hours for me and about 12 of the 20 candidates.

Rose :-D

I think job centres try to lead


JCP, have NO say in what they do!


Rose...I'm back

Gins I did clock your point about JCP staff. Hardly surprising though. All Governments seem to be so obsessed with targets for their programmes and reviews. So schools have 1% truency when half their pupils are kicking stray cans at stray dogs. And hospitals have waiting times of less than 30 seconds. And police have no doubt to hit speeding fine and seat belt fine targets.

No politician seems to have the confidence (or the time) to determine long term policies for anything. Each change of Government means throwing out the old and bringing on the new. We all suffer.



:-(

Again




JCP staff are now targeted on 'sanctions' as opposed to people getting into work!

In other words, 'removing' people from benefits


School truancy, has nothing to do with your thread.

Gins, I responded and then made a slightly different point. Policy making in any area is too short term. Hence there is a great desire to hit targets and change policy at frequent intervals.

If we don't have a proper policy for manufacturing growth, cheap bank business lending and employment subsidies for training and getting back the work ethic, UK will continue slipping behind.

Job centre policy that you drew attention to is mirrored in many other areas of Govt activity

To get young peope working we should:

1) Increase the pension age ( but unemployment is cheaper than a pension)
2) Try to force the disabled in to work ( Paying Atos a vast amount - but unemployment benefit is cheaper than disability benefit)

As, due to the above sanctions the elderly and disabled may have taken a few jobs, to convince the public we actually give a sh*t we:

3)Give employers lots of money to provide work for a young person more than 6 months. At 7 months the young person is 'out on their ear' as 'unsuitable'.....pay said employer lots of money etc...

Oh - sorry!! That's what succesive governments have done/are still doing :-S
Has it worked?

Maggie It all seems daft, doesn't it.

Hardly any joined up thinking in my lifetime. All politicians seem to want to make a quick fix that will give them honours and a good reputation.

How much better if they just thrashed out long term strategies for manufacturing, jobs, pensions. And stopped sticking their tongues out at Prime Ministers Question Time each week.

No wonder none of us vote any more. :-(

I vote. Therefore i am entitled to moan. Anyone who doesn't vote needs to keep quiet, as they have decided to forfeit their right to be involved in the process of government.

G'morning Eldrick old butty. :-)

Whne I was first able to vote at 21, I felt so priviledged. And, ever since, I have tried to follow arguments. I have voted for same party more or less always if a candidate has been standing.

So much apathy about politics recently. I wonder if people should be fined for not voting - some countries do that, I believe. I would prefer stocks to return as it would be good for the fruit industry and provide harmless entertainment on a Saturday. :-0:-) ;-)

Stocks? How very Christian of you, John :-0

Compulsory voting in Australia and fined if you don't. Works well for us but I wouldn't presume to comment on whether the UK should follow suit. I will say that if you don't vote you get the government you deserve.

Yeah, i know what you mean. Some parts of this area if they put a red rosette round the neck of a blind ferret the politically illiterate would still vote for it.

I vote also and moan accordingly lol :-D

I would like to see more encouragement of the youngsters ( and oldsters) who have ideas and inspiration, who want to be self employed but can't get any help with becoming so.

For a personal example D at 17 has his own business ( funded by years of paper rounds and any money making device he could come up with) , but he can't get a cheque book or an unlimited paypal account in his own name even, let alone any financial investment. Now I know that at his age the banks would never fall over themselves to make it easy , but time and again I hear about small businesses which fall at the first fence because the banks won't lend for set up, or new equipment etc ( I cited recently a family firm locally who have become successful and employ a number of people and have orders that mean they need to have more equipment and staff, but the bank would not lend to them...they got the loan from a local scheme eventually).

I was half listening to a news item on China, something to do with them not yet recognising the value of the 'individual' ( it was a fashion designer) as they concentrate on the mass production market.

Now Britain generally speaking is a less organised culture, less regimented is closer perhaps, but what we have always had is people who 'think out of the box', the inventors , the entrepreneurs, the small businessmen and I think that since we can't compete with the manufacturing of 'tat' lol, we ought to encourage and adequately fund the small businesses and individuals who offer something 'different'.

There will never be the full employment that everyone might like,but what worries me most is the sheer waste of 'talent' that could be tapped into, everyone has something to offer and there must be a way of getting those who can't get a job at the moment to 'contribute' and feel part of society but it is hard to do that when you are treated like a scrounger even when you're not...where 'training' consists of companies taking money for ( pardon me) 'bums on seats' NOT the quality of the training or the likelihood of it getting people into work.

Sorry this is a bit random, on my way out really ( not literally I hope!) but I will put some more sensible thoughts later , possibly lol.

Rose, there is a huge difference between your D and some of the youngsters I have interviewed.

He is motivated and will succeed, I have no doubt. There are local grants and Central Government grants for set up equipment but you have to look very hard to find them.

Some of the youngsters I have seen have a level of education that puts the UK to shame.

I had a lot of application forms completed by somebody else on their behalf (not declared). During the interview I would ask them to write a couple of hundred words about their expectation of what they could offer the company and in return what they would expect the company to do for them in their career. Sometimes a short description about their hobbies and interests. These were assigned after looking at their exam results.

Some were totally at a loss, they couldn't spell or string a sensible thought together let alone express it. When it came to the discussion re their 'writings' a few were very bright but dyslexic, they stood a chance of employment. The others were not suitable for employment. That sounds harsh but if they could not read and understand the health and safety regulations, absorb the information on COSHH data sheets they would present a danger to themselves and co-workers.

Those that were dyslexic we could employ if they were willing to work hard and ASK if there was any aspect of the job they needed help with. They could be placed in a position that would carry less responsibilty until we had time to assess their capabilities.

When you are presented with an application form which states:

Have a bad back.
Left last job cos the work was too hard
Left last job because I was always being told off for being late
Didn't like the manager
Couldn't have cigarette breaks.

You lose the will to live!

I feel sorry for the kids who are motivated but are baulked at every turn. I am afraid I have less sympathy for those youngsters who couldn't give a damn if they were employed or not and were just attending because the Job Centre told them to.

I had a waiter at the hotel who was absolutely brilliant, got on with all the guests but was dyslexic.

One evening he appeared in my office and said "The oldies want to know what syphilis is? I did a double take and asked why. he replied "it's on one of the desserts" He meant physalis!!!!! I went to explain ...lolol

Comes back to role models and ambition. If the youth had something more than a set of air headed vacuous drug swallowing morons to look up to, it may be different. A diet of dumbed down television and media that dwells on celebrity and the easy wealth to be gained from it is not really helpful. Manufactured drama in soaps and chat shows is pathetic but eagerly swallowed by the impressionable youth who think it is real and that is how they should behave. And so on and so forth. Theres no glamour in education or science or technology.

Only ambition will inspire literacy and a thirst for education. At the moment its all about winning karaoke competitions and being a professional footballer. In the meantime, macdonalds will do.

How do we get young people working? Create entry-level jobs for a start.

Many of those are blocked by others who want to move up the ladder where there could, in the public sector, be a moratorium in hiring.

There is also the problem, as has been mentioned before, that companies are taking on Work Experience fist-jobbers, either at the government’s expense, or as Interns with no pay. Not every parent is able or willing to support their offspring after they have finished education at what ever level. Once the contracted period comes to an end, they take on someone else.

How can we prepare youngster for the work place? Indoctrinate a work ethic whilst they are still in education; attendance on all days and on time unless they are ‘dying’. May be an award as the carrot, rather than a stick?

Teach them how to complete an application form? At least they would have a better chance at getting that interview.
Get them to realise that they may have to travel outside their immediate area to take up a job? Employment opportunities won’t necessarily be on their doorstep.
Encourage volunteering in the charitable sector? – the experience will enhance their CV.

Unless the government encourages the banks to offer start-up loans, it is going to be difficult for any potential employers to create jobs. Heavy industry is virtually no more, and we are left with service sector jobs. That’s not something that everyone is suited to.

Multi-national companies go where the work force is cheapest, then when the workers start to demand higher wages, move on to another country. If the government want to entice them back to GB, may be we >all< need to come to terms with a lower standard of living?