General Chat

'There is, perhaps, no greater hardship at present inflicted on mankind in civilised and free countries than the necessity of listening to sermons.

No one but a preaching clergyman has, in these realms, the power of compelling audiences to sit silent, and be tormented. No one but a preaching clergyman can revel in platitudes, truisms, and untruisms, and yet receive, as his undisputed privilege, the same respectful demeanour as though words of impassioned eloquence, or persuasive logic, fell from his lips'.

(From Barchester Towers by Anthony Trollope).

A Saturday smile for Cynthia.

The children of Israel wandered around the desert for 40 years. Even in biblical times, men wouldn't ask for directions.

Shane,

Re speaking in tongues and the Pentecostal church. Back in the late 70s my parents were most upset when our?their (I had moved away by then) Baptist church started to lean towards the pentecostal way of service. They never did come to terms with the change.

Cynthia’s experience reminds me of an occasion when I was a teenager.

Our CoE Rector took us to a joint Ecumenical service held in a Pentecostal Church. It was led by various denominations Elders/Clergymen including him.

A member of the Congregation stood up and led a prayer. I can never forget the look of surprise on our Rectors’ face :-D

One advantage today is that we can shop round to find the right church or chapel for us. Most people prefer their local parish church or chapel, but you can stray further today.

My old chapel in Northants in 1990's was very Bible based, very strong on midweek teaching and very strong on prayer. And quite Calvinist (or reformed as they like to say). People would travel more than 60 miles each week (and still do).

I have moved twice since that chapel and my chapel in the Rhondda could not be more different. Very sociable, very easy going people. I do feel, as we get more into Christianity through our lives, that we know what we like in worship but also be prepared to sacrifice what we like sometimes to blend in.

When I went to a chapel yesterday in the Cynon Valley, I was told that a lady had died. Often I have no idea who they are talking about as the person has been ill for a few years and has not attended for some years. But in this case I knew the lady quite well and was very sad about her death. She was an educated and mild lady (a widow) who was life-long Church in Wales (C of E in Wales). But the local parish church was closed down about 4 years ago and, after much deliberation, she walked down the hill and joined the Methodists.

Last time I spoke to her, she said how pleased she was that she had attended Bethlehem these last few years. Worship was different, and she missed the responses and order of service. But she loved the singing and the free prayers and the "meaty" sermons.

Her funeral today. May God bless her and all her family.

Ann - you're quite right - no responses as such in the free church. I can remember years ago, that the services used by Methodists, Baptists etc., were known rather irreverently, as a 'Hymn sandwich', a hymn - a reading - a hymn - a prayer - a hymn......sort of thing. There was no malice in that saying, it was simply a case of pointing out that those churches did not have an 'authorised' liturgy/pattern of worship (as do the C. of E. and R.C.), they could simply alter things as and when they wanted to.

Personally, I have grown to love a liturgical service. In life, with it's many ups and downs, I find comfort in the structure of the worship - it sort of balances me out!

Ruby, in the relatively new Anglican Book of Common Worship, the Apostles Creed uses the wording "He descended to the dead". I guess those who were responsible for modernising the service, felt that the word 'Hell' was out-of-date ?? :-S


As for speaking in tongues, I have heard it once in 'real time' so to speak. About 20 years ago, the vicar in our former parish took his bible study group to listen to another vicar who was the guest speaker at an Anglican church which had a reputation for being rather 'charismatic'.

The speaker was inspiring and, at one stage, various members of the congregation began to raise their arms and start 'speaking in tongues'. It didn't happen to me or to everyone who was there and some of those were disappointed.

Whilst I certainly do not deny the gift of Tongues, I think we have to be very careful how it is used. It should never, ever, be used to create a distinction that one person is 'a better Christian' than another. Each has their own God-given gifts and, if we ask, we are given the words to use on certain occasions, but not necessarily in Tongues. :-)


Rose.......a wonderful prayer and suitable for so many occasions. :-)

"God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference."

......and to know when not to reply on GR lol :-D

Good night and may your God go with you :-)

Ruby. I have never been able to speak in tongues. When I first became a Christian, I thought nobody knew more than me, nobody had more gifts than me. Don't think I was alone in that. A new Christian feels so confident, so full of Christ's blessing.

There are far more Christians than we think who have this gift of tongues. Often they do not tell you as they feel you will not be impressed.

I now hold the view that we all have the Pentecost gifts to some degree. In my case a very small degree. Tongues (0/10), healing (2/10), prophesy (3/10).

But I feel sure that, if I was sent to a foreign country with no health service, God would grant me sufficient gifts to be able to communicate and heal. Might test that out in near future.

We recite the Apostle's Creed in my church every Sunday, but no longer include the line "He descended into hell." I don't know why - I must ask.

Since Pentecost is almost here; I wonder if anyone has thoughts on the gift of speaking in tongues? I have visited churches where it is commonplace, but have never heard it in my church. I am told that you only have to pray for the gift and you will receive, but it hasn't happened. On second thoughts, that may be too deep a question.?

glad I am not imagining it then Cynthia. I am pretty certain that we didn't have any congregation responses as there is in the Anglican church.

I can't remember the creeds from my free church days either Ann.

It's really the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches who give them a prominent position in the service.


You're welcome Joy...... :-)

Thank you, John and Cynthia. :)

Interestingly my oh was brought up a Methodist and attended church regularly until joining the RN in his teens, then he attended my Baptist church. He doesn't even recognise the creed and says he has never heard it spoken in church. Maybe things have changed now then.

Nothing like a bit of exaggeration to help things along John........tuts! :-D


You're simply describing the way Anglicans take the wine each Communion service and, don't forget, it IS mixed with water :-)

It's the celebrant who has the biggest problem as he has to finish the chalice - none of the consecrated wine is to go to waste. Very strict rules on that.

Cynthia. "We claim the promise that where two or three are gathered together in His name, He is here in our midst for the purpose of blessing us all."

Joy. Sousse sounds wonderful. I attended an ecumenical church on a large housing estate near me in the Rhondda recently. There were 8 different languages - English, Welsh, French, Irish, Madagascan, Spanish, Polish, Rumanian. We said Lord's Prayer together and it sounded very harmonious in 8 languages.

We also had alcoholic communion wine out of one silver cup. Drove home a bit zig zaggy - but keep that a secret between us :-) ;-)

Now that makes me think of something we say regularly Joy......."The Lord is here, His spirit is with us"........all one in Christ. :-)

One of the church services that I have enjoyed most of all in all of my life was just before Christmas, a few years ago, in St Felix, Sousse in Tunisia: http://soussechurch.org/

At the time that we said The Lord's Prayer, we said it in our own language; the Christmas carol sheet was printed in several different languages; and it just felt really good. :)

I was glad that we were able to visit the church during our holiday.

You're not alone Rose. I looked at that link earlier and came off .... a) because it was American and I wanted comments from the UK and b) I couldn't follow it. :-D :-D


That's the problem with some teachings, they go way over people's heads....when actually, what we need is a simple, down to earth explanation.

When you say about 'instinct', do you mean the 'feeling' you get when something happens - in that the essence of something transcends words?

Rose :-D :-D

Know exactly what you mean. I love the Nicene Creed in particular. Mainly because I attended a very Bible teaching chapel in 1990's and they had excellent midweeks. Twice a month, a retired Baptist pastor (sic) who had been trained as a C of E clergyman (sic) took us through this creed.

Three years it took, two hours a month. So over 70 hours of wonderful God-honouring study. Each midweek we would start by reciting Nicene Creed as a group.

And I often bring it into a service down here - and many afterwards say how much they liked it, had not recited it for years etc. :-) :-)

I'm afraid reading some of the comments on that link John, leads me to believe I must be thick, because I don't understand some of them :-S :-)

I remain a simple soul, for whom words, though I value them greatly, mean less than 'instinct' ( don't know another word that covers what I mean...'spirit' perhaps? ).