General Chat

http://ecclesialtheology.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/do-real-baptists-recite-creeds.html

I defer to Errol. I have been in joint services with Baptists when we have all read the Nicene Creed but it appears that many Baptists have the slogan "no creed but the Bible"

That was my take on it too Cynthia which is why I was puzzled about the comment about Baptists reciting a creed.
Thank you for your clarification (will PM you with some news later too)

Not knowing much about the other branches of the Christian church, I had to google.... :-D

It appears that whilst most mainstream churches agree with the doctrines contained in both the Apostles' and the Nicene creed, they don't all recite them.

That's a very vague explanation but I hope you get the drift. :-)

Yes, Rose. And the Nicene Creed which is shorter and one I remember. These creeds became part of the basis of all established Christian churches. RC and Anglican, and am pretty sure they were root of Baptist Church and all the others.

Nicene Creed was drawn up at Council of Nicea (in modern Turkey) in 4th century. Some Bishops led by Arianus challenged the belief that Jesus was of the same substance as God ie they challenged the established view that Christianity was based on one God in three persons or personalities. Arianus and a few of the other Bishops believed that Jesus was a separate being and was the Son of God and the Holy Spirit was not God but a spirit.

After much debate, Arianus was declared an heretic and he and his followers were thrown out of early Christian communion and the Nicene Creed was drawn up to teach truth and avoid error through succeeding generations.

Would that be reference to 'The Apostles Creed' John

I believe in God the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
Was crucified, dead, and buried:
He descended into hell; <<<<<
The third day he rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
The holy Catholic Church;
The Communion of Saints;
The Forgiveness of sins;
The Resurrection of the body,
And the Life everlasting.
Amen.

AnninGlos I am inclined to agree with you - I am not aware of a creed in the Baptist church

John I am confused. on 23 April you said (when talking about hell).

"The creed we all recited (Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists, RC, URC) when we were young always said "hell". It meant somewhere horrible, hot and smelly. I notice now it seems non pc to say hell - we have to say Hades. But there is no difference to me - still same terrifying place"

I am confused because I don't remember as a Baptist reciting any creed. I do remember learning the Anglican creed but thatw as because Iw ent to a CofE primary school. I actually don't remember a lot about hell being mentioned at all in our church which when I attended was very much an evangelical church.

An interesting thought provoking post Cynthia....I can't say that I love everyone as I should but perhaps we try hard to care. It doesn't always work and is sometimes in retrospect.....the thought is there though, so that's a start :-D

Good to see you posting on here Cynthia - and plenty of food for thought too

The beginning of a new week indeed.....and what a beginning for my vicar.


When I arrived at church this morning, the place was 'buzzing' with news! It seems as though the vicar's car had been stolen overnight....... :-(


As things turned out, it had been badly vandalised, and taken away for analysis. There had also been some damage to his wife's car and some garden ornaments and fencing.

Don't know what it was all about, but the police say that they have the perpetrator in custody. The Vicarage is on a main road but set back a bit so it looks as the whoever did it was caught in the act. There should also be some camera footage of the incident. The thing is, he has only had the car about 2 weeks :-( :-( :-(

Despite all this excitement, the service continued as usual, :-)


Our lady Lay Reader in training did the sermon and she was good. She spoke about love - taken from the gospel reading. In essence, she asked....do we REALLY love people as we are supposed to as directed by Jesus, or are we choosy?

She talked about garden centres, and how easy it is to mistake silk flowers for real flowers. Do other people see us as genuine Christians, or do we come over as artificial - like those silk flowers? Some good thoughts there. :-)

We seemed to have a lot of children in this morning, several of whom were in fine voice...the bags and books I organise for them certainly came in handy :-D :-D



I had another wedding album left for me - all to do with the Wedding Fayre I am involved in later in the year. I am borrowing albums and scanning a couple of photos ready for a display of pictures of weddings over the years - especially those which were held at our church.

It's brilliant looking at the fashions....the bride's father who had a 'butterfly' collar on his shirt.....the waistcoats and fob watches and the ladies who were wearing very sensible hats with a flower stuck on the front....... :-)

It's striking as to how 'modest' the bridal dresses were in those days - unlike now when they hardly have any backs to them and not much front either..... ;-)

Happy Sunday and new week to everybody.

Just a reminder that Ascension Day is Thursday 9th May and Pentecost (Whit Sunday) is celebrated on Sunday 19th May.

Hope today gives you a blessing and strengthens you, whether in church, at home or wherever. :-) :-)

As one who has never used the word Hades in place of the word Hell, and who has moved away from the concept of fire and brimstone, I prefer the way modern theologians generally describe Hell.

'Hell is the logical consequence of the soul using it's free will to reject being united with God. As God is full of justice and mercy, he will not interfere with the soul's free choice.'

Thank you, Rose. :)
x

An acknowledgement would have been courteous, John, to show you had seen my post to you; even a "that's interesting, Joy, thank you", perhaps.

My husband's training took three years at Sarum, whilst he was still working as a university lecturer.

Signed ... Anglican, that worked for The Salvation Army from 1989 until 2007.

:-)

Hell is a short and easy word for what was meant in the Bible. Hell is mentioned by Jesus a few times.

I had a friend in my last church who I thought was quite a good Christian man, but he believed very little of the Bible. He would say things like "the Old Testament is fanciful, Paul is too judgmental, Revelation is wild and woolly. I only look at the Gospels and Acts". He even narrowed it down further - his Bible was Matthew Chapters 5, 6 and 7 - the Sermon on the Mount. He thought the sermon was very comfortable and soothing.

I agree it is a great place to start if you have never read much of the Bible. Though it is probably the hardest teaching in the whole Book. Take these verses (KJV): " Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

The word Raca was an Aramaic word for fool - but was less serious than the word translated as "fool" into English. You would need to get into the Greek text to see the nuances of meaning between the words "Raca" and "fool".

There were 3 capital punishments available to the Jews under Roman occupation (crucifixion could only be authorised by the Roman Governor):
1. Beheading
2. Stoning (which could only be applied by Jewish ruling council - the Sanhedrim)
3. Burning the criminal is the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, which was where all rubbish was burnt in the valley outside Jerusalem city gates.

Hell fire is a translation of the fires in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, I believe.

Jesus certainly meant his remarks to frighten the life out of his hearers, imo. :-0

Edit at 1736 23/4/13 Sorry, folks. I was asked not to preach. Will try to be quiet for a couple of days at least :-(

Joy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ :-D :-D

Did see your post and it was extremely interesting. Just didn't feel I had anything very useful to add. Forgive me please. I was amazed recently to discover that I was baptised in Swan Bank Congregational (or URC). My family was 100% Methodist nearly - and just assumed I would have had a Methodist baptism. But was quite pleased - even though I have no idea where Swan Bank is and why I was sprinkled there :-)

Cynthia. Lovely post. You are so modest about what you do in your church, I think.

The creed we all recited (Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists, RC, URC) when we were young always said "hell". It meant somewhere horrible, hot and smelly. I notice now it seems non pc to say hell - we have to say Hades. But there is no difference to me - still same terrifying place. :-( :-(

John and Cynthia,

Thank you both for your answers. I try hard to understand what the bible is telling me, but realize there can be many interpretations. I like to dig into a piece of scripture until it makes sense to me, and then I can simplify it in my mind, so that it registers - hopefully.

Thanks again,
Ruby.

Goodness me - I don't know where to start.... :-S


First of all, hello to everyone......and it's lovely to read all the comments.

Okay, I'll go back to last night.........

Joy, not sure how the union of the two churches is going to be honest. Haven't heard anything about it for ages. Mind you, these things can't be done overnight .


I can only speak for the C. of E. these days, but I know that anyone putting themselves forward for Ministry, has to undergo a lot of training. When they are first accepted for training, they have a choice (on advice), as to which college to go to.

Those who are of a 'low church' persuasion will go to a college which follows in that tradition, whilst those of a more 'catholic' leaning, will go to one which caters for that wing of the church.

I guess that, although I am happy enough about ecumenism, I do rather prefer the 'catholic' way of worship. Strange coming from one who was brought up in the Salvation Army........ :-D


John, I really don't have a 'leadership' role.....I just help out as and when required. That said, anyone who is involved with children in any way, has to undergo CRB training and have a CRB check.


Hi Ruby, I used to love it when my last church ran 'house groups' as it meant a lovely evening with nice people and you learned something into the bargain! They were always lead by the vicar though.

This is where I tend to be very, very careful before giving an opinion on anything Scriptural.

Over the years, I have heard so many people say......"I think this" or "I think that" and it's simply their own interpretation on Scripture......and it may right, or it may be way off course! That's why I tend to go for the tried and trusted explanations which have stood the test of time.


As far as Paradise is concerned, there are various views on the subject but, basically, the word is used in terms of ' future bliss, contentment, harmony' - that sort of thing.

The word appears only about three times in the NT and has been variously interpreted by scholars - who have, like Ruby, speculated between a terrestrial and a heavenly paradise. So, although one may have their theories on the subject, no one knows.......until...................


As for the thoughts on the resurrection of the dead, we have a book on the Letters to the Thessalonians...written by a much respected theologian - the late William Barclay.

Here, he is talking about Paul's answer to those who despair of death.

'Paul's answer lays down a great principle. If a man has lived in Christ and died in Christ, even if he is dead he is still in Christ and he will rise in Christ. This means that between Jesus Christ and the man who loves Him there is a relationship which nothing can break.

It is a relationship independent of time; a relationship which overpasses death.

William Barclay then goes on to say.....

The picture which Paul draws of the day when Christ will come is poetry. It is an attempt to put into words what is inexpressible and to describe what is indescribable.

(then there is a description of the picture - chariots in the sky etc.) and he continues:

We are not meant to take with crude and insensitive literalism that which is a seer's vision.

Like Rose, I believe in keeping things as simple as possible and, for me, this finale statement from William Barclay says it all...

It is not the details which are important. What is important is that in life and in death the Christian is in Christ, and that is a union which nothing can break.

~~~~to Joy, I can seeeee you :-)

:-) SueMaid

"I love you when you bow in your mosque, kneel in your temple, pray in your church. For you and I are sons of one religion, and it is the spirit." - Khalil Gibran

Am I invisible, John?