General Chat

I'd have barred him.

Brenda we have discussed the ridiculous amount of duplicated paperwork lots of times. The simple answer is to send all paperwork in English with the option of using a free phone number to request Welsh copy and have that option entered onto their data basis.

However, as long as the Welsh language lobby get funding for promoting the language you can say goodbye to a few hundred more acres of forest :-(

It´s very similar in Catalonia.
Catalan is the teaching medium in the schools even though the official language of Spain is Castillian. Shop & road signs, info leaflets etc are all in Catalan & now, you can´t have a job unless you speak Catalan.
As an ex pat it was a bit of a shock to the system when i had spent years learning enough Castillian to get by when I moved here, only to find I had wasted my time.
The majority of people are bilingual in Catalan & Castillian, but many will only speak Catalan, just to be awkward.

I would suggest that the assistant had had a bad day. And he was a grumpy old man. It happens!

I think she would have spoken to customers in Welsh and probably asked for the money in English. If someone asked what is that in Welsh please, most assistants would just repeat the amount in Welsh. As easy for her as English. Pum deg wyth punt is really no problem and easier to say, I would suggest, for a Welsh speaker than "fifty eight pounds".

But she decided to be awkward and pushed her bell. And the manager took her side and called for the police. And Dr Lewis (who does not look much like a terrorist to me - rather pleasant and mild-mannered and bookish, I would suggest) dug his 83 year old heels in.

Probably could have dealt with it differently in hindsight. But we all see a red mist at times, and not so easy to walk away and be as diplomatic as we would like. But I have a lot of sympathy for the old boy. Still got loads of spirit.

We have all had this welsh english conversation before not long ago.

its bad here in north wales,were we have the local council only advertising jobs in welsh,most of our schools are now welsh medium,including the special schools(which i think personally is wrong)...we are all aware of Robin the bard here,as he writes a column in the local ENGLISH paper,sprouting on about incomers killing the language(what a load of rubbish) im a scouser by birth and all of my 4 children were born here and are welsh speakers as is my 2yr old granddaughter.. :-D

I had an instance of this when I lived in Barmouth.
I taught music privately at home and had great success with my pupils.
I was friendly with a lovely Welsh lady whose husband was a school governor and the post of music teacher came up and she said for me to apply,which I did.
My qualifications were the highest but I didn't get the job because I wasn't a Welsh speaker.
The one who got the job was rubbish and I had a lot of pupils come to me privately to help them get their exams.When I went to a parent teacher meeting for my own children she ignored me for ages and wouldn't give me the syllabus....Couldnt help it,but said it would be her getting feather in cap when they passed exams.


I call it insecurity.

I would suggest the assistant was having a perfectly ok day until some gumpy old git attempted to bully her.I don't think she was the one who decided to be awkward, either.

He was the one who made an issue of it. Anyone with any manners would have just paid up instead of attempting to bully the assistant.

A bit of a google shows Dr Lewis to be a fully paid up menber of the awkward squad - mild mannered and bookish? I think not.

More here-
http://druidnetwork.org/articles/meiniachadair.html


eg
"Dr Robyn Lewis, Archdruid of the Welsh Gorsedd of Bards, wrote to the Daily Telegraph: ‘Since the Stone of Scone was returned to Scotland a few years since, and it is clearly only a matter of time until the Elgin Marbles are returned to Greece, may I express a request that Stonehenge be returned to Wales?’ Dr Lewis’ appeal, made ‘on behalf of my fellow druids, bards and the rest of my Welsh compatriots’

Gwynne

Incomers do not kill the language IMO, the Welsh schools in Ceredigion rely on incomers to keep their numbers up!

Inevitably in rural areas the English children have to learn Welsh and logic states that without this new blood there would be fewer Welsh speakers.

In 1987 there were a total of 32 children in my kids' school. Of those 18 were incomers. All left school bi-lingual!

Silly old twot,

I supose he didnt object to the prices being displayed in English then or the food labeling?

nothing but a bully......they should have put him out the shop and barred him,,,,,,,

barred him - like it - he is a bard after all :-D

I agree with David I'd of barred the silly pompus old fool as well untill he learnt some manners .......and said sorry in English :-D

Why should he dictate how others, in a bi-lingual part of Wales, should speak.

He had his principles, and the cashier had hers.
All he had to do was hand over the money he owed.

Self- opinionated pr*t!!

My sister, (English speaking, English parents) started school in St Davids. She had to speak Welsh.
I. the unwilling 'pupil' of an elder sister who played 'schools' , can still count to 5 in Welsh!!

Had I been the manager of the shop I'd have voided the sale and barred him from the shop and....first and foremost I'd have looked after the interests of my staff instead of wasting police time with such a ridiculous clearly publicity seeking idiot.

Can't see it doing any favours for tourism in the area either

In the 70s I worked at Butlins Holiday Camp in Pwllheli with a concession in one of their shops and they were very glad of the business and employment of loads of Welsh people who had to speak English.
If they speak Welsh at home...fair enough...it's their choice and I know a lot ofWelsh who are very nice people,but you get the odd one who has to object to the English.
It amused me when I used to drive round by some rocks near Maentwrog and someone had written.......Brits go Home...not English go home!

It will be interesting to see if there are any winners from this incident. I doubt Spar will come out of this well. Neither does Dr Lewis, though I doubt many of the Welsh language lobby will criticise him for his stand like some here have.

As far as the Welsh language lobby is concerned (and I am not an active supporter) I would think they would argue like the Catalans. Hundreds of years of suppression of our language by our overlords (English or Spanish). We are now trying a last ditch effort to reverse that trend before our language (and 1500 years of poetry and prose) is lost.

A few people I knew lost their liberty at end of 1960's for demanding bilingual road signs and bilingual forms. I could easily have been one of them. And I felt (and I feel) it is a worthwhile cause. And (on balance) I admire the old boy's courage in standing his ground against both the manager of the store and the local constabulary.

as ive said before,im a scouser,i first heard the welsh language spoken in smithdown lane liverpool in the 60s,.mum used to knit a lot of our clothes,and the lady who had the wool shop was welsh,mum used to go in to get her wool,but the lady would not sell to anyone who didnt ask in welsh(big welsh community round smithdown rd and old swan then)mum used to point to what she wanted,but was told the price in scouse.,grew up with the welsh,bestfriend was welsh,and she lived next door in good old toxteth.x :-D

I cant agree with you John,ive lived in wales for 40yrs,and the welsh are wingers,they go on about the welsh language dying,but they dont teach their own children to speak welsh,they complain about having to send out leaflets in welsh and english and the costs of doing that,english councils have to send out leaflets in 17 different languages,get a life.

its not all about wales, :-D

I can't say I admire him, I dislike bullies, whatever their motivation.

Spar comes out of it well,as far as I'm concerned, for supporting an assistant in the face of intimidation.

The language isn't going to be lost unless the people decide to let it go. It survived the repression of the 19th century and now is enshrined in law. My mother's family were Welsh speaking but rarely used it after the grandparents died. If it dies it will be because Welsh speakers don't want to use it any more.

Gwynne

There has always been a strong bond between Liverpool people and North Wales Suzanne. I was opposite to you with my best friend...she came to live near me in Wales from Liverpool in the 60's....I in turn loved going over on the ferry to her nans for the weekend and hitting the clubs!

There is a interesting book called "Liverpool to Loggerheads" we'll worth a read.

Annx

I wonder John if you would still admire his stance if it were your daughter or grand daughter he bullied in that shop that day?