General Chat

I have been looking for an aunt that only lived to be 2 years of age. I keep coming up with two names.. it is possible that the spellings have been mixed up...how would the problem affect the tree? :-S
I can find a birth notice for one spelling and a death notice for the other name...so confusing !!

What is the name and place and date of birth and someone can take a look for you

Ellen R.Ryan born July/Aug/Sept Camberwell 1930 mothers name Merrick
No date of death.

Eileen R.Ryan died Jan/Feb/March Greenwich 1932 Mothers name Merrick.
No date of birth.

My mother told me that she had a sister called Eileen who died at 2years of age, and a brother who died at birth. Name of Frederick Ryan .

Mother name was Florence Eunice Merrick
Father was Frederick James Ryan

There was a 4th sibling - Elsie Winifred Ryan born 1925 died 1985
My mothers name was Doris Hilda Edwards (nee Ryan) born 1921

Any body that can help would make me very happy!
Wendy :-D

It's likely that it's the same person but the only way to be sure is to buy the certificates to see the names of the parents.

It is possible that the baby was registered as Ellen, but the parents then decided that they preferred Eileen .............. that she was then baptized as Eileen, and registered on her death as Eileen.



You cannot change a birth registration ................. so you often find children with extra names that are not on the registration but added at baptism (or just "acquired" over the years), and occasionally with a different name.



sylvia

child death certs wont name the mums unless the mum was unmarried they will say son or daughter of and the dads name.

have you got the death cert

Name: Eileen R Ryan
Birth Date: abt 1931
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1933
Age at Death: 2
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1d
Page: 1359

name: Frederick G Ryan
Mother's Maiden Surname: Merrick
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1932
Registration district: Deptford
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 1036


Name: Frederick G Ryan
Birth Date: abt 1932
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1932
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Deptford
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 1141

There's always a chance that the mother might have been the informant of the death though.

Admittedly it wouldn't give her maiden name, but forename or initial might be a help, if she was the informant.

You can change a registration within the first year,
The child has to be baptised first then baptising record is used as proof.

I know because I added another name to my sons name forty years ago
He has two birth Cerys but only second is valid....btw he hates the name
I added

Although I agree you can change a childs name, have seen it done quite a few times....but in this case they did not do it, as there would be an amendment.

I do not agree that a baptising record would need to be produced though...as I would not be happy if that was the case, if I had wanted to change one of my childrens names.

My grandmother found out when she was over 60 that the two middle names she had been using were not the ones mentioned on her birth cert....we think they maybe her names when she was baptised, but not managed to find that yet...otherwise where did she get them from?

In this case it was probably just a clerical error on the day when the birth was registered....If your mother said she had a sister named Eileen....then thats what they thought they had called this child, maybe it was just miss heard?

The Birth certificate
Column 10 - Name Given After Initial Registration
This is for the entry of a name given after initial registration. This relates to the fact that before civil registration, the recording of the major life events was in the hands of the church and especially of course of the established church (Church of England). There was tremendous resistance to civil registration by the established church who felt (rightly as it happened) that people would stop baptising their children if they had an alternative piece of legal paper in a civil registration. And the church had had the power and responsibility for centuries.

If a child was registered without a forename and was then baptised, or if a child was registered with forenames that were changed at baptism - because baptism was in place before civil registration and was considered more important - then the facility was given to change the first names (but NOT the surname). These days the baptism must take place within one year of the date of registration but the alteration can be made to the register at any time once the baptism has been completed.

The importance of this is that very often a child had a name changed by baptism but the civil registration was not corrected. That means that the name used by the child will not match the indexes, which are amended if a space 10 correction is made. At baptism the names may be altered in order, changed in spelling, new ones put in, names taken out or changed totally. These days there is a facility for names to be changed without baptism because of course many people are of other faiths or do not go to church.

http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm#COL10

Roy

but ............

....... how many people do, or did, make that change??

I would argue that very few would know about it.

I added a name to my sons other two without telling his dad at baptism he was 6mnths ,we then had till he was a year old to make it legal,son and his dad hate the name,that was 40yrs ago

Would say both entries are for the same person,,,,,,dont forget it was an inkwell and a nibbed pen back then,,so when it was being transcribed from one ledger to another it would be easy to make a mistake of Eileen/Ellen.....plus ink ran and smudged.......! :-)

Thanks everybody for the interesting input to my question. I will send for the cert's of both names..Hopefully that will throw some light on the difference. :-D <3

Kay???? Your answer is very close to what I was thinking...side by side I can see clearly what could/ probably did happen! :-)