General Chat

Of course it is not fair. Property taxes never are but have been very popular with the Treasury since the day's of Oliver Cromwell who started it all. It fails Colbert's test though quite badly.

“The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing”

There are 101 ways of avoiding this kind of tax and indeed most forms if inheritance tax. The problem is that a lot of middling people like to directly own things e.g. house, company shares rather than exercise control.

Another problem with any such tax is that the whole of the UK would have to be revalued - that is basically why the much simpler approach of extra council tax bands has not been tried. Adding extra council tax bands would be impossible to avoid but would pluck too many geese.

I am not a supporter of any of the political parties as all they have to offer are lies and looniness wrapped up in different ways but one point made by the Tory back benchers is quite true. Taxation in the UK has reached the point of reducing returns and both this and the next government of whatever stripe will just have to tax less and spend less.

How they do that of course is going to be interesting as all of the easy fixes have been tried. If history is anything to go by - and it is a lot more reliable than the forecasts of pundits and politicians - then we shall "enjoy" a massive inflation which will inflate away the pain and make a big paper bonus for house owners. Everybody else will be between the rock and the hard place.

This has already started - inflation is approaching 3% and rising, the £ has crashed against the €uro. Consider that this is happening with a govt of Tories and Orange Book Liberals. Two years of it then Milliband ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqyVZK5yN1E

thank heavens we no longer have the window tax - or wallpaper tax - or candle tax (wax?).

Although I am quite a strong advocate of the hat tax of the late 18th century as introduced by Pitt's government ;-)

watch what you say about Ollie - he's in my tree - allegedly :-D

I really think that this is just another example of our politicians playing to the gallery to stress their well worn phrase "We Are All In It Together" :-(

These suggested Mansion Taxes would be unfair and would severely penalise those who are not cash rich, those who have worked hard all their lives to improve their quality of life and that of their children, While doing so they have paid their taxes on the money they earned and they paid for their house with the money they had left after paying their taxes.

If they want to specifically raise money from the rich then increase the rate of income tax they pay, and raise tax on their property dealings through an increase in stamp duty on the purchase of properties above a certain value.

We are all in it together, trouble is the less fortunate sow the seeds so the rich can gather in the crops ;-)

Capital taxes reduce the value of the whole economy by converting assets into cash for the Government's current expenditure.
And it has been shown that once the Government spends over forty percent of the National income then stgnation results.
The most successful economies are low tax ones.

But surely that is already the case.
If you earn over a certain amount you pay a higher percentage of tax. Also, stamp duty (Stamp Duty Land Tax to give it its proper name) is paid on a sliding scale depending on the value of the property.
So, in other words, the more wealthy already pay at a higher rate.

Errol, I do believe you forgot one - the hair powder tax, introduced c1795
Surely you pay that one for the privelege of powdering your woolly coat? :-D :-D

only during the months I am unshorn

:-D :-D Errol

Just read that it likely won't be just levied against one property worth £2 million ....it could be that a person who owns buy to lets will also be affected if their value reaches £2 million..

ALSO there are draft plans by the lib dems to tax on family heirlooms..jewellery..paintings etc..........

Won't affect me but I can see a lot of the wealthy people buggering off out of this country and taking their tax money with them a la France....

I agree. No one should pay extra tax just because they are living in an expensive property as many families in these properties could well be on low income having bought or inherited many years ago. By the same degree those families who are on low income, living in properties considered too large for them should not be expected to give up their homes or pay more.

Both are silly ideas in my opinion and I wish this government would go and find some other ways of filling the coffers without hitting the poor no matter where they live.


Vera

My OH's son recently moved from SW18 to another SW London area and being nosey, had a look to see what was available in the area.

There were some properties in his old road for 2million and they were no mansions..... nice 5 to 7 bed with no garages either but a reasonable sized back garden 100ft plus....I would prefer to live where I do and have a bit of land then living in London

It's not just the potential millionaire tax on properties that will be targetting home owners though.(even though the £2 million bracket limits massively the number affected by it)

If i'm lucky and i get to live to an age where I may need care...I will have to forfeit the majority of the equity in my house..that I've paid ridiculous taxes and interest on over the years whilst people who don't own their home will get care for nothing.Up to £75,000 and that doesn't include residential fees should the need arise !!!!! The government could well end up having wholesale what we've worked our backsides off for years !!!!!

As someone said on the thread the other day...I'll go to dignitas before I allow them to take it away from my children.What the hell is the incentive to work or try to better yourself when ultimately the government end up with the spoils whatever way you do it !!!

Copied from Muffyxx post >>> "Just read that it likely won't be just levied against one property worth £2 million ....it could be that a person who owns buy to lets will also be affected if their value reaches £2 million".

Interesting, so if any of our sober, honest, and upright MP's and Peers own two properties each worth say £1.5 million, and I have no doubt may of them do and don't forget we have subsidised the purchase of many of these, their properties would total £3 million and they would get hammered, whoopee I am all for that :-D

OneFootInTheGrave , Don't get carried away just yet,




Who pays their expences :-(

Roy

Porkie_Pie, don't get me started on their expenses and other perks, we are living in the 21st century, we are no longer living in the days when a few landed gentry fitted their parliamentary duties in to suit their other commitments.

Firstly it is high time they worked 9 till 5 five days a week.

Secondly, they should only receive one payment, a salary which covers all their day to day costs including accommodation, they should not receive any other perks such as subsidised accommodation, meals, and drink.

Thirdly, the only other payment should be for any office staff they "actually need" to carry out their duties and that should not be paid to the MP, a small payroll department should be set up and it should make the payments using the PAYE system to any employee of an MP.

Fourthly, they should bring in a voting system similar to the one operated by the Scottish Parliament, the current "Division" system is antiquated and costly, most times when their is a vote it takes around 20 minutes or more to carry out and the moment the Speaker shouts "Division" they all head straight to the bar for a subsidised drink, been there and seen the stampede ;-)

Feel better now that I have got that of my chest :-)

Homes are homes. And if an elderly widow wants to pay exorbitant council tax, high heating bills and rattle round in an 8 bedroomed private house that has been her family home for 60 years, that is her business and none of Mr Clegg's. Clegg has probably got his assets tied up in Spain anyway for his future.

I thought this Government were trying to simplify tax. I wonder why, at a certain income level, tax increases in rate. If someone earns £9k pa, they should pay no tax. If they earn £50k pa they should pay £8k tax. And if they earn £500k, they should pay £98k tax ie all at 20% taking out the exemption of £9k or £10k of earnings.

Then the Exchequer has 2 simple sums to consider each budget:
1. How much should all earners be allowed to earn before they pay tax at all. Tax codes.
2. What does rate of taxation need to be to pay for everything? 20p, 25p, 30p? And just one rate for all.

Muffy, it looks like when we buy things that we pay tax on, we'll have the "privilege" to pay again later. I reckon more and more people will do what my friends have done, drastically downsize, gave there children some money, and go on holiday every month or so.
They have both worked hard all there lives, he still does at 67, they are just spending what they've worked for instead of giving it away to the taxman :-|

Certainly does seem to me Lynda that home owners are the new whipping boys where the tax man is concerned......makes me so mad......my mum and dad have got an equity release on their house and I nag them to take advantage of it and ENJOY themselves with their money...they are coming around to the idea of skiing and I couldn't be happier.

Mansion Tax, Bedroom Tax, Proposed Motorway Tax, Pastie Tax, Caravan Tax, the list is endless and our current Chancellor will go for any tax that does not hit his cronies pockets to hard ;-)

A Select Committee recently criticised what they called the government's desperate attempts to stimulate the economy as being expensive experiments.

They said George Osborne since he became Chancellor had continued to follow Gordon Brown's policy of printing money in order to boost economic growth, this despite him saying in 2009 when he was in opposition that this policy was "the last resort of desperate governments" :-S

We all know the countries finances are in a mess and it can be argued it was the Bankers fault and or the Labour Party's fault, arguing about whose fault it was won't solve the problem. Neither will any of present incumbents of high office with their daily bickering, comprises, knee jerk reactions, and these ill thought out policies that are being proposed.

It would not surprise me if at the end of this current governments term of office we are in an even bigger mess than when they came to power :-(

What this country needs is a Government and Chancellor who can come up with an economic strategy similar to that followed by Sir Stafford Cripps between 1947 and 1950, those policies created growth followed by reasonable levels of prosperity :-)