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A genealogy question, now there's a shock :)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

~Lynda~

~Lynda~ Report 25 Feb 2013 23:38

Sue on every census 1841-1891, she says she was born in Portugal, so I'm pretty sure she would have been. Thanks for looking though :-D

 Sue In Yorkshire.

Sue In Yorkshire. Report 25 Feb 2013 22:50

According to Elizabeth's death notice on FMP she was 89 yrs old,which makes her born any month after end of March 1811 til Dec 1811.

Just going to dig a bit deeper on Familysearch.

I am almost sure that she was born in England,(Gut feeling) not Portugal as she would only remember living there from being little.

Will get back to you if I find anything important.

~Lynda~

~Lynda~ Report 25 Feb 2013 22:17

That's right Sue, I now hope you are going to tell me that you are a long lost cousin, and have both trees going back to year dot...I didn't think so :-D

Have you found something?

 Sue In Yorkshire.

Sue In Yorkshire. Report 25 Feb 2013 21:13

Lynda,
Did Elizabeth die in Mar qtr 1901 in Islington.
and William in Mar qtr 1900 Islington.?


Hayley   Empress of Drama

Hayley Empress of Drama Report 25 Feb 2013 21:08

Sorry for going off topic but my father was born overseas in 1921 he has a birth cert an army one and is birth over seas register :-D

~Lynda~

~Lynda~ Report 25 Feb 2013 20:48

I have her in the 1841 Dizzi, and know all her children's names, and there's only one of them with a middle name, and that's a girl, who's middle name is Elizabeth !

Thanks for the suggestion though

:-D

DIZZI

DIZZI Report 25 Feb 2013 20:33

LYNDA
IF YOU KNOW OF HER MARRIAGE PLACE HAVE YOU SEARCHED 1841 IN AREA FOR SAME NAMES,IF SHE HAD CHILDREN SHE MAY OF USED HER LAST NAME IN SONS NAMES

~Lynda~

~Lynda~ Report 25 Feb 2013 20:09

I'm ploughing through all your suggestions, thank you :-D I realise now that Elizabeth wasn't necessarily born to a father who was in the army, thanks for all other suggestions.

Dizzi, I have the marriage of my Elizabeth already thank you. It's a shame my Elizabeth didn't marry a few years later, I would of had her fathers name at least.



:-D

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 25 Feb 2013 18:36

shrugs shoulders ............


I C&P'd that because I found the site some months ago, and thought it provided some very interesting information re army wives in earlier days.


I'm not too proud to admit when I C&P ............ in fact, doing anything else, and thus seeming to have written it yourself, is plagiarism.


.......... which is also why I like others to get it correct when they accuse me of writing something that I C&P'd


I also know that it was too long ................ and most will very likely not read it :-)

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 25 Feb 2013 18:32

Yes, I have quite a lot of rellies born all over the place to army fathers e.g. my great grandfather was with the 10th Regiment of Foot in Japan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_%28North_Lincoln%29_Regiment_of_Foot

and another great aunt was born in Malta while her father was serving with the Royal Artillery. I could go on and on, enough Gunners to staff Highbury.

so I don't just rely on C&P!

Here is a good British army children web site 1837 -

http://www.archhistory.co.uk/taca/history.html

Where the army goes the pongos (source: the Andrew)

was plain ann now annielaurie

was plain ann now annielaurie Report 25 Feb 2013 18:23

You could try searching the Army Births on FMP but they are by no means complete.

DIZZI

DIZZI Report 25 Feb 2013 18:12

ARMY BIRTH IS ADDED TO REGIMENT IN BOOK ,WHEN RETURNING TO THIS COUNTRY ITS NOT REGISTERED AS NORMAL FROM 1837,
EVEN IN 1923 MY FATHER IN LAW HAD NO BIRTH CERT

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 25 Feb 2013 18:04

er .................


Rollo .......


to be precise ..................


you posted this .................

"Sylvia wrote this:

"During the latter half of the 19th Century the army became more professional and the roles women previously played were slowly cut out. Marriage ................. "



I did not WRITE that ............. <<<<< edited, omitted word "not"



I POSTED it ..................... it was a c&p from the web site noted ..........



........ let's be accurate in what we say.

DIZZI

DIZZI Report 25 Feb 2013 15:50

OF THIS PARISH MEANS YOU HAVE LIVED THERE FOR
OVER ONE YEARS & ONE DAY,UNDER ONE YEAR YEAR THEY ARE
NOT OF THIS PARISH

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 25 Feb 2013 15:41

I had forgotten that the BAOR had changed its acronym to BFG. In any case the thread is not really about modern pongos more about long ago sprogs.

Sylvia wrote this:

"During the latter half of the 19th Century the army became more professional and the roles women previously played were slowly cut out. Marriage was emphasised for officers as they were taught to feel protective of their soldiers and the hierarchy felt that if they were all family men this would come to be of second nature. Soldiers beneath them however were actively discouraged from marrying. The regiment was enough wife and family for the non-commissioned officers, family in tow would increase numbers, cost money and slow movement and as a direct result of this position they had to seek permission from their commanding officer to marry. Requests were rarely granted."

Incorrect. In fact most of this para. is twaddle. Possibly drafted by a Grauniad junior reporter.

DIZZI

DIZZI Report 25 Feb 2013 15:27

ARMY BIRTHS ARE NOT REGISTERED IN OTHER COUNTRIES
THERE'S THIS MARRIAGE
Name: Elizabeth Hale
Spouse Name: Frederick Bowering
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Jan 1835
Parish: West Norwood St Luke
Borough: Lambeth
Register Type: Parish Register

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 25 Feb 2013 12:27

Rollo, You say "The right to have wives and children with them was "NOT" restricted to officers but also extended to warrant officers and other ranks who had signed up for 7 years or more"

I cannot see where it's been said that it was only restricted to Officers,

The criteria has over the years changed back and forth according to the needs of the Army one example of this can be seen in who and how the armed forces have recruited over the years one example, National service ends then the army becomes under strength so they used the court system to recruit by telling offenders prison or Army your choice, then once up to strength criteria changes to they would not take anyone with a criminal record, Then will not take married men, I no this because i served whilst all this was happening

Also the B.A.O.R. has not been in existence for the last 10 plus years It was replaced in 1994 with British Forces Germany (BFG)



Roy


RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 25 Feb 2013 11:43

Sylvia and Wisechild are correct in what they say.

Armies have gone to war with baggage trains of kit, loot, wives, girlfriends and children, surgeons, artisans (wheelwrights, gunsmiths, carpenters ... ) since the days of Gilgamesh.

The British Army was no exception during the long campaign against Napoleon on the Iberian peninsula. Some episodes of "Sharpe" touch on this.

Portugal was ( and is ) an important ally such that the English barracks were more akin to what modern Americans would call a base.During ww2 "neutral" Portugal in 1943 leased the Azores to the British which was bad news for U-boats.

The navy also had overseas barracks with children being born there. In the Navy's case shore establishments such as barracks always ( and still do ) have the name of a ship e.g. HMS Ganges. The phrase "go tell it the the marines" has a long history lol.

The right to have wives and children with them was NOT restricted to officers but also extended to warrant officers and other ranks who had signed up for 7 years or more. I have found army children in my tree born in Japan ( the Shogun's war), Malta, Heligoland, Ionian Islands, Gib., Punjab, Dublin, Inverness, South Africa as well as England and Germany. This practice goes on right to the present day with B.A.O.R.

The Portuguese had a long tradition of fortified wine but it was a handful of British families in the Druro region who really got it going in the early C19 of whom these families are some of the best known: Cockburn, Croft, Graham, Offley, Sandeman, Taylor. For those who are not aware Cockburn is pronounced Coebu'ns. One of my female ancestors married into the Croft family. A week in Oporto with its fine restaurants and golf course is at least as much fine as golf in the Algarve.

There is any amount of documentation about the British army abroad and family history but only fragments on line for free.




~Lynda~

~Lynda~ Report 25 Feb 2013 08:30

Thanks everyone for your suggestions :-D

I'm not at all surprised with the help I've got on this board, it has a variety of people, who look on here from around the world, and a variety of people look on here, who maybe able to help. Although it's a chat board, It's also a genealogy site, what better way to share our experiences, and give help. I wasn't asking for a look up, I was asking for advice, so I think this is the perfect board

I'm out for most of the day, but will look into all your suggestions when I get back home, and will get back to you if I find anything.

Thanks again everyone :-D

wisechild

wisechild Report 25 Feb 2013 07:42

My 3x g grandfather was born in France in 1817. I found his baptism in the Army chaplains records, but had a real problem finding his marriage. After about 20 years of wondering why his brother had the 2nd christian name of Wood, it turned out that his mothers maiden name was DuBois. Obvious really. I eventually, with much help from a couple of cousins, got a copy of the entry of their marriage in 1816.
If your rellie was in the army the records should be there, although it takes a lot of digging,but it´s also worth mentioning that the British had a strong link with Spain & Portugul for the wine industry. Not just importing, but actually working in wine production.