General Chat

That ship in full sail

.Is it the ghost of the Temeraire ?


Does it symbolise how she was in her glory days at Trafalgar or does it perhaps show how that ship,with every bit of canvas utilised,still is unabe to keeppace with the all-powerful little steam tug?

There are inaccuracies in the painting - the masts and time of day for example, though in the background there is a second paddle steamer 'tug' making it's way toward the ship.
Turner was something of a romanticist, and a formidable (imo) 'atmospheric' painter. There is some speculation (without his confirmation, it must remain so) that the the painting represented an end of one era, and the beginning of another - similar to that of his own mortality - was the Temeraire him, perhaps? And the nasty, smoking tugs the future Industrial Revolution and speculation about his own future?
Whichever or whatever, it's one of the most fascinating paintings I've drooled over !!!

:-D

An artist ? I always thought he was one of the gods.

Turner was an artist,he could put the moon and sun anywhere he liked, just like he shifted Chichester cathedral around a bit to get a good picture.

Went to a Turner exhibition at the Royal Academy a few years ago and said "Never again!". We were packed in like sardines. I couldn't get a view of half the pictures and when I could get close enough to see one I couldn't stand in front of it for more than a few seconds because of the crush behind me.

Did see some Turners in comfort at Petworth House in October last.

Have you seen it at the National Gallery?

It is for the most part high and dry with all the Reynolds and Constables with only some more Turner sea scenes for company.

I feel that all these 6 Turners should be sent to the National Maritime Museum where they would be loved. Rain Steam and Speed belongs to the railways but the shed at York is no place for such a work of genius.

No the moon could not be setting as the sun was rising. That happens when you have a full moon and the sun and moon are in opposite ends of the sky.

Who cares? It is just one of the most stunnig paintings ever.......

Turner is a god in this house

I did some more digging.

Turner faked it - I already knew that all the masts and spars had been removed before the tow. I have heard it said that some of the timbers were used for the reconstruction of the Prospect of Whitby after a serious fire.

"Turner was seen on board a Margate steamer sketching the passage of the Temeraire upriver to Beatson's ship breaking yard at Rotherhithe on 6 September I838, although what he saw and what he painted are two different things. Thus we know from contemporary newspaper reports that the Temeraire was towed by two tugs, and another observer of the towing later testified that the painter invented the spectacular sunset. The Temeraire glorified for the last time by Turner's brushes, for in reality she is stripped of her masts, sail and rigging, all guns and useful parts are removed by the Admiralty as spares. The ship is to be stripped of its oak wood at the breaker's yard, the copper sold back to the Admiralty for £3000, the breaker having paid around £5500 for the hull."

Serious money.

Me too.

I have to disappear for a while now but I'll certainly look in later to see if there are any more interesting comments.

Have look at the National Gallery site.

Everything you say Rollo makes logical sense but it still looks like a sunset to me. It makes more sense to tow the ship on the morning tide and what I think is the moon which could have been setting as the sun was rising. Yet it just doesn't have the feel of a sunrise to me.

Turner was known for accuracy but he was also famed for trying to convey a mood.

Do you think Turner knew all this?

Does anybody know who commisioned the picture?

Turner was well known for being accurate with his paintings, not creating a collage of bits and pieces to evoke a theme.

Look at the painting in hi res.

The ship can only have been towed west to east.
At that time the north shore of the Thames was marsh right up to the Isle of Dogs while the south shore was built on as per the painting. The smoke and the trim of the ships in the background also show the wind was blowing west to east.

It would be quite impossible to tow a hulk by steam tug with a following wind. The usual wind in the Thames is a westerly. The towage was difficult and expensive. The tugs would not have attempted the tow without a steady headwind from the west.

It is recorded that Turner ( as usual ) went to the Thames himself and made his own sketches from which he created the painting. Why would he go to all that trouble and then reverse the north and south shores of the Thames?

Has to be morning.

Lookiing at it again the Temeraire really is ghostly, perhaps saying that all good things come to an end sometime. But I don't think Turner is necessarily saying that what is to follow will be worse. The flames from the chimney stack of the tug match the colours of the sunset and I don't find the tug as ugly as some of you do. Perhaps Turner is mourning the loss of the past but also looking to the future?

There is a balance of power there. That old ship is lifeless and sad while the nasty little tug is full of life.

Do you feel it is representative of something?

I see dark tug boat, at sunset. pulling an almost ghostly looking sailing ship, a casualty of war.

That steam powered tug is horrible.

I don't think Turner ever actually stated what time of day it was.

According to the National Gallery

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/joseph-mallord-william-turner-the-fighting-temeraire

The painting was thought to represent the decline of Britain's naval power. The 'Temeraire' is shown travelling east, away from the sunset, even though Rotherhithe is west of Sheerness, but Turner's main concern was to evoke a sense of loss, rather than to give an exact recording of the event. The spectacularly colourful setting of the sun draws a parallel with the passing of the old warship. By contrast the new steam-powered tug is smaller and more prosaic.
...

Look at it from our timeline prospective, I see it more as the decline of the age of sail, and the rise of the more powerful age of steam.