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Badger culling (debate )

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ChAoTicintheNewYear

ChAoTicintheNewYear Report 27 Feb 2013 16:16

Badgers spread TB...so it's said they should be culled.

Humans spread allsorts of diseases...

eRRolSheep

eRRolSheep Report 27 Feb 2013 16:21

now there IS food for thought.
Although I do believe the idea may have been mooted before

JoyBoroAngel

JoyBoroAngel Report 27 Feb 2013 16:30

Chaotic human kill far more animals of all types
than any other creature on this earth

what gives us the right to say which ones live or die :-D

ChAoTicintheNewYear

ChAoTicintheNewYear Report 27 Feb 2013 16:40

It probably has Errol.


Exactly Joy :-D

Chrissie

Chrissie Report 27 Feb 2013 16:59

I'm against culling badgers Joy. There seems to be lots of disagreement about whether there's enough evidence that badgers are responsible for the spread of bovine tb and if culling even works.

Budgie Rustler

Budgie Rustler Report 27 Feb 2013 16:59



Joy, what gives us the right to say which ones live or die


To use what I believe to be an American phrase..."Might is Right"

Something I personally do not prescribe to. :-|

Bobtanian

Bobtanian Report 27 Feb 2013 17:20

Did not God Give mankind Dominion over all animals?(or words to that effect)

Budgie Rustler

Budgie Rustler Report 27 Feb 2013 17:45


BOB!!!!..... this is Joy`s thread, dont push it matey... The Lady can be lethal.



:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

~~ Jules in Wiltshire~~

~~ Jules in Wiltshire~~ Report 27 Feb 2013 18:11

It probably boils down to money, it is probably cheaper to cull than to vacinate...I believe that every animal has a right to live...

Jules..

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 27 Feb 2013 19:25

Here is a site with all the facts and figures :

http://www.bovinetb.info/index.php

There are some quite interesting things to observe.

One of them is that there is little firm data on the distribution of badgers in the UK, so much so that even for the region most affected by bovine TB (West Country) the actual survey v estimate was a major reason for the postponement of last year's cull.

What is for sure is that there are a lot of badgers all over England but the TB problem is concentrated in the south west. There are cows all over England too of course but more in the south west because the grass grows more.

It is admitted by DEFRA that at best the reduction of TB would be under 20% i.e. it would not make enough of a material difference to the economics of dairy farming in the south-west as to save the farmer's financial skins.

DEFRA refuses to talk about bulk milk price for farmers. However a fairly small rise in minimum bulk milk prices would enable farmers to cope with current levels of TB. Bulk milk means milk used for cheese, butter etc not the pint in the supermarket. Setting a floor to bulk milk prices would obviate the urgent need for a cull which is obviously going to fail and has the makings of a first rate political disaster for the Tories.

Still they are quite good at that and Patterson, an exceptionally stupid and thick skinned man is ideal to push the cull through.

The French claim ( falsely ) to have eradicated TB mainly through exterminating wild life. It is true enough that the French are keen on exterminating wild life. Every Sunday members of "La Chasse" (the Hunt) armed with cheap shotguns (often pump action) march across the countryside massacring pretty well anything they see. Landowners are powerless to stop this. Nevertheless in Normandy at least the red squirrel, wild boar, badgers and hedgehogs somehow survive in the bocage. Out in the plains of the Eure no chance. The French have managed to get wildlife eradication adopted as official EU policy and the UK is being pressurised to implement the policy with EU funding. Otherwise the French will stop buying British horse sorry correction beef. Hmmm.

What can be done ?

TB is a very nasty disease. Nasty for cows, nasty for badgers. Nasty for humans too and thankfully it was eradicated through a program of vaccination which anybody over 40 will well remember. Unfortunately it is creeping back due to a failure of political correctness with parts of the immigrant population eg Hackney being much affected.

Even so bovine TB is not a significant problem to human health even in milk as 99.99% of it is pasteurised.

The problem is that TB seriously weakens cows and their milk yield drops dramatically. As the disease is very infectious the only option is that the animals and sometimes the whole herd is put down.

Thus bumping along with the current problem is not really an option.

Massacring the badgers won't sort the problem either even if they were to be totally eradicated as other animals carryTB and the bugs lie dormant in the soil. For instance the stoat ( a red animal with very sharp teeth and lots of low cunning ) is mainly kept in check by the badger. Without badgers the stoat would have a lot more to eat and its numbers would increase dramatically. Stoats also carry TB and so removing the badgers would just bring in a new disease vector. There is no way large numbers of stoats could be controlled except by a general eradication of wildlife (the French approach ). Stoats are the major TB factor in New Zealand which does not have badgers.

Inoculation is an option and research could be speeded up. The main problem is funding and France especially is resistant to this approach. As there is no money not much happens. It is also possible to innoculate badgers though more research is needed for a cost effective approach.

There are several advantages to innoculating badgers themselves. First of all it is good for badgers :-) Secondly it would help solve the chicken and egg problem as to who is infecting who. Thirdly it avoids the French boycott threat. OTOH there is EU funding for massacres but not for research or vaccination.

All in all a serious problem which obviously has got to be sorted. UKGov and Cameron true to form have unerringly spotted the worst possible way to go.

Myself I would get the RSPCA to stop wasting millions of pounds on its fox hunting crusade and instead spend the money on an urgent program of badger vaccination starting in Somerset and Gloucestershire.

As a last word whatever is done will cost money. Dairy products will cost more. Inch by inch people will find that the bulk cheap food policies of the last 40 years have not been a good idea.






maggiewinchester

maggiewinchester Report 27 Feb 2013 19:35

If they over-cull, won't the badger become endangered?
How can they justify culling when the badger is a protected species?

Could it be that cows are spreading the TB amongst themselves?

In reality, it would probably be cheaper to give both cows and badgers mineral licks.

So far £50m has been spent on seeing if culling is effective. What they found was the social groups split up and spread the TB further afield!!!

I'm not a great fan of badgers - nasty vicious beasties, but that's no reason to wipe them out!!

~flying doctor~

~flying doctor~ Report 27 Feb 2013 20:20

Totally against.

JoyBoroAngel

JoyBoroAngel Report 27 Feb 2013 20:31

i just dont want any animal culled
i hate what happends every year in canada

ie canadian club on the rocks

SAVE OUR BADGERS :-D

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 27 Feb 2013 20:37

The badger is not protected in France.
The French drive EU farming policy - it is one of the unwritten rules.
If Cameron wants his budget cuts and fishing reforms then Germany will only remain onside if Cameron follows the rules.

Obey ! Obey !
no ?
right then

exterminate EXTERMINATE E X T E R M I N A TE !!!!!

departs to electronic music and graphics effects

It is always difficult to get English people to grasp the utter venality of the French though Wellington understood it well enough.

During the 1960s a leading fascist and collaborator Maurice Papon became head of the Paris police. The "beurs" (Arabs) from North Africa had become a bit of a nuisance so one day in 1961 he had around 60 dropped off a bridge ( yes, they died ) to show who was boss in town. Another collaborator became President. In more modern times the beurs (again) Romanians and pretty well anybody who does not fit the current idea of Frenchness have suffered terrible treatment unimaginable in the UK.

I only mention this to try and get people to understand that if the French will do this to human beings then badgers are not going to score too well.

Badgers ? "You make the joke, no? "
There is zero comprehension of British love of wild life.

You do not get nature programs as prime time French TV. Gory police thrillers, yes.
For instance a recent series of En Grenages (Wheels within wheels aka Spiral) shown in the UK had this enthralling scene:
burned corpse on mortuary table
pathologist cuts into anus and extracts condom containing SIM card
Cultivated ? Civilised ?
Just the people to be in charge of agriculture and food safety.

"If it cannot be eaten or f-d then shoot it" ( French nursery school basics )

JoyBoroAngel

JoyBoroAngel Report 27 Feb 2013 20:38

its a wonder the french dont eat badgers
they eat everything else ;-)

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 27 Feb 2013 20:45

They do. Here is a translation.
[ Les cuisines oubliees (forgotten recipes) by Annie and Jean-Claude Moliner ]

To cook one badger you’ll need:

1 badger
1 glass of pig’s blood
1 small glass of armagnac (apple brandy)
1 ginger root
1 bottle of dry, sparkling white wine
2 eggs
1 pot of crème fraîche ( sour cream )
salt and pepper
500g forest mushrooms OR chestnuts to accompany
100g butter
oil

Eviscerate and skin your badger, and soak it in a fast-flowing river for at least 48 hours. ( The shower will do as the French don't wash ). This will help you to de-grease it more easily.

Once the badger is de-greased, cut it into pieces and brown it in a frying pan with butter. When the pieces are golden and stiff, flambée with the armanac, season and add a grated soup-spoon of ginger, fresh if possible.

Pour over the wine, and simmer gently for at least two hours.

At the end of the cooking time, mix the chopped badger liver (cooked beforehand in a little oil), the glass of blood, two egg yolks, a coffee-spoon of ginger and the crème fraîche, and pour into the cooking dish. Serve immediately.

This dish goes well with wild mushrooms or chestnuts.

Enjoy.

maggiewinchester

maggiewinchester Report 27 Feb 2013 21:53

.....and have you a recipe for small song birds?........


:-D :-D :-D

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 27 Feb 2013 22:47

Sure, maybe you are referring to the last meal of Francois Mitterand, French President.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16951_the-6-most-sadistic-dishes-from-around-world.html

eRRolSheep

eRRolSheep Report 27 Feb 2013 22:54

I think you can get it on a sett menu :-D

ChrisofWessex

ChrisofWessex Report 27 Feb 2013 22:59

The farmer I referred to in West country sampled his soil and discovered there was a deficiency in two minerals caused by growing maize and we feed cattle on maize.

He got mineral cakes and fed the badgers - and gave it to his cattle. The tb has gone. Why doesnt DEFRA take heed of this?

Even on this thread is evidence of tb in cattle where there are no badgers - N. Zealand and Isle of Man.