General Chat

I am quite interested in Anabaptist. I don't know a huge amount about them but do have some knowledge and, might add, great respect for the way they live.

If anybody would like to explore the topic further then please feel free to post.

However,if people want to engage in a free for all I shall pull the thread without warning.

Tin hat and bunker at the ready just in case lol :-D ;-)

Won't need them.

The first bit of sniping and the thread is gone. I don't want to read it and neither does anybody else.

I've heard of them Sharron but honestly don't know anything about them. Now that you have mentioned it, I will have to have a google and find out a bit more. :-)

I must admit I've never heard of them and would have to google
to find out. Looks like an interesting thread, hope it will turn out
that way.

Emma

The Amish, Mennonites and the Hutterites are all Anabaptists.

What they are is a very orthodox kind of Protestant.

They are actually the only true Communists because their lifestyle is based on the belief that the most important factor in life is the community.

If the community is stable so will the individual within it be.

Hi Sharron

Anabaptists were part of a religious "revolution" in the 1600s ........ devoutly religious, but with a different interpretation of the Bible than other religions

The Anabaptist sects all originated in parts of Europe, mainly Germanic-speaking countries such as Germany or Austria, at around the same time, but with different leaders.

The main ones still in existence are ................


Amish

Mennonite

Hutterite


All were persecuted in various ways throughout history, and moved from one country to another. Those 3 groups are now mainly in the US and Canada, with some Mennonites also in South America

Very interesting Sharron. Sounds like the same principal as Kibbutz in Israel.

OH and I watched a couple of programmes on the Hutterites
and we couldn't get into it as to us they seemed to contradict
their beliefs.
The Amish we find appear to be a people who truly believe.

Emma

You may find this website interesting.

http://www.bruderhof.com/international-directory/europe/united-kingdom/darvell-community/

The Darvell Community is not many miles from me, a group of the most friendly people I have ever met.

http://www.diggersanddreamers.org.uk/index.php?one=dat&two=det&sel=darvell

I don't much about Kibbutz but I thought it was more communal than Communist.

The Anabaptists live in their families but I thought that those in a Kibbutz all live together as one family.

Different levels really.

Sharron,

I understand your point, at one time children in a kibbutz were segregated from their parents but now they live in family units including their extended family in some cases.

Thanks Joeva.

I will Google kibbutz because I only ever remember reading one thing about the idea and that was in a sociology class about thirty years ago.

To me, it seems as though there might be things in common ..........

........ but kibbutz are only found in Israel, are they not??

Whereas, the Amish, Hutterite and Mennonite do not have a "home land" that people go to .............. they have moved to different countries to escape persecution, and have taken their way of living with them.

so they establish colonies in Canada, the US, and sometimes in parts of South America.

I think most of the colonies have a finite size, and after that, they split off daughter colonies.

The Hutterites began to look at splitting off when the "main" colony reaches 100 people.

I really feel very ignorant about Anabaptists.

They seem to reject infant baptism and re-baptise as adults. But baptists do that too, as far as I know. I found on IGI baptism of famous Baptist preacher of 19th century, Charles Haddon Spurgeon. In an indpeendent chapel in Essex as an infant. Then of course he had his famous baptism (I think in May 1850) in River Lark and I have stood at spot on river bank where he was baptised.

So two questions I would like to ask:
1. What is difference between Baptists and Anabaptists?
2. Is there any connection between the Protestant movement in Europe called the Moravians and these Hutterites, Mennonites and Amish? They all seem to speak German to a degree.

Incidentally, John Wesley believed in adult baptism. But he also believed the Bible recommended a baptism as an infant. And the idea was that the sins of child were "covered" by at least one parent being a committed Christian until that child was of an age to "decide for Jesus" or reject Christ.

Does anybody know, before I look it up, when the Kibbutz movement started?

As for the the origins of the Baptist church,I have Googled and there does not to be a consensus on it.

John

The Moravians pre-date the Anabaptists .................... the Moravian Church began in the late 14th century, as a Protestant religion, and eventually almost all of the region known as Moravia and Bohemia was Protestant, until the Jesuits were sent in form Rome to re-establish Catholic schools etc. The religion itself was seemingly outlawed

There were small groups of Moravians who managed to survive in out-of-the-way places.


There are currently well over 800,000 Moravians around the world today, and they still send out missionaries to convert others to their religion, as they have done since around 1730 or so.

if you try googling Anabaptists and Moravians, it's all very complicated, and meshed together.

and there are different theories on how these Protestant groups arose.


For example, the Hutterites seem to have begun in the Tyrol region, moved to Moravia because of persecution in the 16th century, led by a Jacob Hutter ............. hence the name.

They then seem to have supplanted or replaced the Moravians ..................... but were then persecuted out of Moravia.


I do know the Hutterites eventually ended up in Russia, living there seemingly pretty happily for about 100 years, or until towards the end of the 19th century.

Anabaptists are all pacifists ....................... the Hutterites also refuse to wear any kind of uniform, even police or ambulance.

So they left Russia when there was a change in some law that would have required them to wear a uniform.

They apparently visited several countries, and decided that Canada, specifically the Prairie Provinces of Manitoba and Saskatchewan, best suited their purposes.


and they have lived here since around 1880/1890


The Hutterites could be considered the most modern of the 3 groups, Amish, Mennonite and Hutterite.

They drive cars, they have modern farm and industrial equipment, they have phones and cell phones, They have radios and TVs, and computers.


whereas the Amish are the ones who stick most religiously to their old way of life.




16 Amish men and women in the US have just been sentenced to varying years-long terms in jail for "hate crimes"

The Amish do not believe in cutting hair, or cutting off beards after marriage. This little group (most related by blood or marriage) decided that others in the community were not obeying all the religious laws, so they went out one day and cut off men's beards and women's hair ............... full knowing how devastating that would be.

The US authorities decided this was a "hate crime".

There are now worries about where these 16 are going to serve their time in prison ............. and whether they will in fact be corrupted by the presence of TVs, computers, etc in the prisons.

Sharron,

Not that knowledgeable about the Kibbutz origins but think that it was began at least a century ago in Israel and has been growing ever since.

Sylvia. The Wesleys were famously converted by the Moravians, being on a boat with them in about 1735 when they went to USA as missionaries. And later attending their meetings in Aldersgate St in London. I remember leader was a Count von Zindendorf.

But I think John Wesley was not so complimentary about Anabaptists. Must read some of his notes and check that.

There was also a Christian community founded at Trefecca (near Brecon) by Hywel Harries. That was a small number and flourished greatly for a few years in 18th century.

Many Christian "communes" have failed to my knowledge because next generation not as committed, infighting, greed etc. These Anabaptist groups certainly seem to have an answer to keeping their communities and their religion alive.