General Chat

There was never any chance of her having a 'private' funeral :-)

Does that make it 'right' Roy?

She could have had a private funeral

Security could have been 'helping others', I doubt they stay at home 24/7

I no that the estimated cost of MT's funeral was 10/12m but to be honest that's not the real cost

Most of the cost would be for security and the service personnel involved

Does anyone actualy think that all these security and service personnel would have been sat at home doing nothing and not getting paid?

Roy

The Government has no money of its own. Every penny it spends on our behalf is either raised from taxes or borrowed. Current borrowing alone costs each person in the country £750 a year in interest charges.

In addition to being a charge to the country, subsidisation either results in a surplus i.e the EEC wine, butter and grain surpluses or a reduction in productivity and efficiency, or both.

Either way neither is a good thing in the long term.

Guinevere


I for one am not belittling miners .......... and neither is anyone else is, anywhere other than in your interpretation of what has been written.


We are pointing out that miners were not the only people to suffer.

Practically every industry in the UK has suffered dramatic downturns from the 1950s on.

But you seem not to want to accept that.


Cotton mill workers got no free perks .................... they worked long hours, in an environment filled with minute particles of cotton floating around. They also got lung diseases, one was byssinosis, that crippled, then killed them.

My uncle worked in that environment as a janitor ................ the only job he could do because he was badly injured in WW1, and despite the fact that he had been gassed in addition to the other injuries.

It was not only miners who suffered ................ but miners were undoubtedly somewhat better off than others, in many ways, including the free perk of coal and reduced rents on homes.



IGP ...........

........ I had 5 years of university, with 2 degrees, to add to 9 O levels and 4 A levels.

My take home pay as a teacher in 1964 was £80 a month, paid at the end of the month

We got no pay in August (school holidays), but we did get double pay at the end of September ............... our contracts were for 12 months.

Try living from end of July to end of September on 1 month's pay cheque. It was hard as a single person. It must have been impossible to stretch £80 or £100 over 2 months with a family to support.

By the time I resigned on July 31 1967, I had been receiving £100 take home pay for about 3 months


I had earned more working on the floor and in the stockroom of the Pakamac factory in the summer of 1958 than I did as a new young teacher in 1964.


edited once, for grammar

I agree Roy..........but they find about 10/12m for a funeral!

Pneumoconiosis "Miners lung" was mentioned in one of my posts

You cannot unconditionally indefinitely subsidise any industry the end result of such action is bankruptcy and countries can and do go Bang

There is no such thing as a money tree or a cupboard always full of money where government can go and make a withdrawal

Roy

Annx maybe you could contract it from the canaries down the pits? lol

Let's not forget that 'Thatcher' had this planned, well in advance. She stock piled coal, long before she took on the NUM

Scargill, not a fav of mine......but he did have the knowledge that 'she' was about to make huge closures.......some didnt believe him!

I admire our miners and former miners.

'rationalisation would have meant that some could have remained open.....

My point earlier G :-D

Of course, Ann, thanks. Past my bedtime, getting tired.

There was unpalatable inflation and a recession anyway.

Not all the pits were unprofitable - rationalisation would have meant that some could have remained open but breaking the unions mattered more.

Off to bed now, so not ignoring anyone.

Guin, Psittacosis is caused by birds like Parrots.......I think you mean Pneumoconiosis. :-)

But Guinevere it was costing too much and was unsustainable as it was.
The only way it could have continued would have been to either massively reduce wages or double, treble even quadruple energy costs for home owners as well associated costs such as groceries etc. That would have led to horrendously steep and unpalatable inflation.

But is was costing twice as much to get the coal out than it could be sold for. This couldn't go on, regardless of who was in government.

I couldn't disagree more, Errol.
To rely on imported coal was and is a huge mistake. Profit may have been Thatcher's mantra but that doesn't make it right.

The miners deserved the pay, they risked their live's 'for us', for the nation

....and, what job in the 1970s didnt have a 'perk'......although I dont know how true this is about the miners?

I used to do my dad's books till 1974 IGP and £20 a week is what he and the chap who worked for him both got too. My hubby was paid a bit more having done a 6 year apprenticeship on a pittance before, and with the addition of about 6 hours overtime.

No-one is saying the work isn't dangerous, grandad's davy lamp he took to and fro to work was a reminder of that, but then so are lots of other jobs.

I am sure that if the coal mining industry was a massive profit making enterprise then it would surely still be around today.
There may have remained large coal reserves but one of the most important factors was the exorbitant and loss inducing cost of extracting it.

My grandfather didn't work down a pit.

His mother made sure her sons got an education and got out of the valleys so they wouldn't leave a young widow and children as she was left a widow with 3 small children.

The village I'm talking about was built in the 1950s to house miners relocating from the north. It was falling apart almost as soon as people moved in.

Mining is still a filthy, dangerous job but it was all some men had, all some men could do. Mines were capped with plenty of coal left but to Thatcher et al breaking the unions was more important than investing in people's lives.

And I repeat, the miners there did not sell coal - they needed it all.

Edit - and even in mechanised pits miners got psittacosis - or are we forrgetting that?

Guinevere I don't think people are knowingly or deliberately telling lies and I agree with Roy in that the era we are discussing is the 1970s onwards

No one is disputing that mining was a doddle, yes it it was extremely hard and dangerous work.

On the other hand, compared to other workers, miners have always been relatively well paid.

My own example for the early 70's says just that. I had a grammar school education, 8 O levels and 4 A levels and had what was considered by many as a good job, but yet it paid half what a miner earned.

In fact it was only a fraction more than what a refuse collector earned - and I know as I worked as one in the summer after leaving school.