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An Army connection but how?

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

MickB

MickB Report 15 May 2013 18:10

I have been trying to trace my grandfather Charles Mackleworth b 1871 in Hackney. I found him on the 1911 census shown as a cabinet maker working from home. Then I found four of his children - two born in Kingston Barracks, one born in Jersey channel Islands, and the last one (9 mths old) born in Crown Hill Barracks, Plymouth.
Military records show the kids born with a reference to the 31st and 70th rgts. but my grandfather doesn't show up as anything Army related. Neither have I found a birth for him.

Am I missing something obvious? :-S

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 18:16

?

British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 about Charles Mackleworth

Name: Charles Mackleworth
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Age at enlistment: 18
Birth Parish: Hackney
Birth County: Middlesex
Document Year: 1889
Regimental Number: 2688
Regiment Name: East Surrey Regiment
Number of images: 6

Andrew

Andrew Report 15 May 2013 18:19

For ref

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harmes Alice Kingston 2a 773
Mackleworth Charles Kingston 2a 773


Andy

KittytheLearnerCook

KittytheLearnerCook Report 15 May 2013 18:20

I have found his military record that show he joined the 3rd battallion Royal Fusiliers on 27th July 1889.

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 18:24

On those military records it gives a Robert mackleworth as brother, poss ?

Births Mar 1881 (>99%)
MACKLEWORTH Robert Bethnal Green 1c 288

Andrew

Andrew Report 15 May 2013 18:25

In South Africa when 1901 census was taken

UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949
about C Mackleworth
Name: C Mackleworth
Campaign or Service: South Africa - Second Boer War
Service Date: 1899-1902
Service Location: South Africa
Regiment or Unit Name: 2nd East Surrey Regiment
Regimental Number: 2688

Andy

KittytheLearnerCook

KittytheLearnerCook Report 15 May 2013 18:25

Next of kin listed as his brother Robert.

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 18:31

Births Mar 1870 (>99%)
Mackelwroth Charles Bethnal Green 1c 217

Andrew

Andrew Report 15 May 2013 18:33

1881??

1881 England Census
about Charles Robert Mackelworth
Name: Charles Robert Mackelworth
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Mackelworth
Mother's Name: Sarah Ann Mackelworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Beth Green, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 13 Pitt Street
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 424
Folio: 16
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
John Mackelworth 30
Sarah Ann Mackelworth 31
Charles Robert Mackelworth 3
Robert Mackelworth
Elizabeth Mackelworth 14
Walter Charles Mackelworth 23
Robert Mackelworth 20
Charles Mackelworth 12


Andy

Andrew

Andrew Report 15 May 2013 18:40

1871?

1871 England Census
about Charles Mackelworth
Name: Charles Mackelworth
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Mackelworth
Mother's Name: Sarah Mackelworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green
Civil parish: Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: South Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 299
Piece: 331
Folio: 97
Page Number: 57
Household Members: Name Age
John Mackelworth 42
Sarah Mackelworth 38
Sarah Mackelworth 18
Mary Ann Mackelworth 16
Waller Mackelworth 14
Robert Mackelworth 11
Willm Mackelworth 8
Jessie Mackelworth 6
Elizabeth Mackelworth 4
Charles Mackelworth 1


Andy

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 18:40

Marriages Jun 1870 (>99%)
Gibbs Sarah Ann Bethnal Green 1c 631

MACKELWROTH John Bethnal Green 1c 631

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 18:42

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Sarah Ann Gibbs
Name: Sarah Ann Gibbs
Spouse Name: John Mackelworth
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 19 Jun 1870
Parish: Bethnal Green St James the Great
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Joseph Gibbs
Spouse Father Name: John Mackelworth
Register Type: Parish Register

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 18:52

In the 1871 that Andy has posted , Jessie is the daughter of

Name: John Mackelworth
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Sarah Hutchiston Notley
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 9 Mar 1851
Parish: Stepney St Dunstan and All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Robert Mackelworth
Register Type: Parish Register

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 18:53

Mary Ann

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

about Mary Ann Mackelworth
Name: Mary Ann Mackelworth
Spouse Name: Charles Richard Gibbs <<<
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Aug 1874
Parish: South Hackney St John of Jerusalem
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: John Mackelworth
Spouse Father Name: Charles Gibbs
Register Type: Parish Register

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 19:07

1861 England Census about John Mackelworth
Name: John Mackelworth
[User-submitted-comment]
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Mackelworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 160
Piece: 260
Folio: 158
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
John Mackelworth 33
Sarah Mackelworth 28
John W Mackelworth 9
Sarah E Mackelworth 8
Mary A Mackelworth 5
Walter C Mackelworth 23
Robert Mackelworth 11 Months

MickB

MickB Report 15 May 2013 19:07

OMG!! I didn't expect anything like this. My friends, thank you most sincerely. I have a 1st cousin in Australia and a 1st cousin once removed in this country who will be gobsmacked. As I am.
This Charles Mackleworth is my natural grandfather. I was adopted so to find all this information is honestly, mind blowing. I am running out of superlatives. Thank you again. I am going to sift all this. There are names I don't know at all.

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 19:19

Come back if there's any thing else you need :-)

If you want the images from the military records I am happy to email them to you .

MickB

MickB Report 15 May 2013 21:18

I am not sure of the form in this forum but if it's okay with you guys, I shall answer bit by bit and as best I can in order using time to identify. There is just so much to handle, I want to deal with what I can identify as pretty nigh on certain, and what I need to debate,

RR1816 - this I think is dead on. The year is right, the name and spelling are right, the place is right and the reg number 2688 is confirmed in Andy's South Africa entry at 1825

Andy1819 - thank you - I found the 1902 marriage today after I had spent credits confirming different things.

KTC1820 - how does this square with the East Surrey Regiment. Does the regiment include the 3rd Battalion of Royal Fusiliers? I was never an army person so am clueless.

RR1824 and KTC1825 - excellent stuff. A confirmed sib. I had no idea of sibs so to see one called Robert is great. There seems to be a Robert in every generation since.

Andy1825 - the South Africa stuff is a wonderful bonus.

RR1831 - this has thrown me. I have his dob as 1871 (but no cert.) but this says 1870 and the spelling is wrong.

I am not sure how to treat inconsistencies like this and all the other stuff that followed. Yet reading the stuff about John and Sarah is compelling. But I don't know if it's Charles' parents or not? How should I proceed? Treat them as his parents and see where it takes me?

Michael

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 21:43

Hi Mick,

with a name such as this it's not unusual to find inconsistencies with spelling, this can be because the people themselves choose to change the spelling slightly over time , and on census returns it depends on the way the enumerator 'hears' the name. Ditto the age, it is not unusual to be on the census as a slightly different age rounded up or down.




Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 15 May 2013 21:46

I would buy the marriage cert for 1902, it will give you the details of father's occupation which is always a help when cross checking with the census and may also be useful if their is a related witness named.