General Chat

GlasgowLass - I read about that with some sadness, the victim has the same surname as I have.

I know, that there is a branch of the family in the Glasgow/Lanarkshire area, although I have not researched that yet - so sad and my thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends.

R.I.P. Joe Clusker <3

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-25352971

So sad to hear that he crash has claimed it's 10th victim.
<3 <3 <3

RIP to the 9 people who have died and my sympathies go out to all the families involved.
2 of the men who lost their lives were from my home town.

Unsafe at any speed ?

http://goo.gl/Dzul8E

Apparently police and army helicopters ( and fixed wing warplanes ) are not required to have a "black" ( dayglo orange ) flight recorder. They can of course be fitted as an option. How to apply this reasoning to police helicopters is beyond me.

Extracting data from a messy situation is to say the least challenging but far from impossible. The extreme delicacy with which the wreckage was handled may in part be attributed to the need to preserve the state of onboard electronics, instruments and control systems as much as possible.

Using all the available data and film/photos taken by the public the end of the flight can be reconstructed in a simulator.

It will be quite a while before any hard news emerges, if ever.

According to one report I saw, they do not have black boxes but they were hoping that the on-board computers could give some answers to what happened.

These helicopters do not have black boxes do they??? :-S :-S :-S :-S

To say the least of it running out of fuel is an unlikely event. Ditto failure of both engines. Even if it did run out of fuel or both engines failed this design of helicopter would be perfectly capable of gliding to a more controlled hard landing.

By far the most likely thing that could have caused it to fall out of the sky with no pilot control whatsoever is a sudden mechanical failure which caused it to lose all lift. The other possibilities are being hit by a SAM which def, did not happen or the pilot being blinded by one of those green laser devices which some idots think are fun to aim at aircraft. The "black" box should provide the answers.

Just google a bit Eurocopter has plenty iof recent history of problems with drive to the main rotor. The current "fix" for craft flying out to the rigs is much closer monitoring of the drive system.

thank goodness the pilot had the presence of mind to shut the fuel supply off before it hit the ground

I watched them lifting it out of the pub, it does not bear thinking about the devastation that would have occurred had it exploded when it crashed through the roof of that crowded pub, a pub I know well :-(

Now that they have lifted it out - hopefully those anxiously waiting on news of missing loved ones hear something soon.

R.I.P. those nine who have died so far in this horrific accident, we can only hope and pray there will not be many more.

well they've now lifted the helicopter out of the building

It has been announced in the last 24 hours that the death toll has risen to nine, five have been named, but the names of the other four have not yet been released.

Many families are becoming angry at the time it is taking to get into the pub to see if anymore bodies are in there and they think the authorities priority is to salvagr the helicopter not the search for bodies.

One father who is waiting for news about his son wants to know why, with all the heavy lifting gear on site, they cannot lift and suspend the helicopter in the air so police can enter the pub to check for bodies.

I pray and hope those who are anxiously waiting on news of missing loved ones hear something soon, the waiting must be a nightmare for them.

Three accidents per how many hours flown? Please stop scaremongering, Rolo, and once again please start your own thread if you want to discuss airworthiness of this helo.
Lets remember at least eight people have died

You are missing the point.

There have been at least three fatal accidents with these craft while in service to the police in Scotland and the Puma version for North Sea ops was grounded for some time after another series of mishaps all gearbox related.

It is relevant in the context of this thread because the operation of aircraft with known dangerous faults over urban areas should not be permitted.

I don't really think that air worthiness certs. should be issued on the basis that "my mates in the blues think it's a good piece of kit" or that complex EU business deals demand it. Probably true though.

Betcha the press are screaming blue murder in tomorrow's Daily Record whether the mates like it or not.

Well said Staffs Col, my thoughts exactly.

Sorry Rollo but this is not the thread to argue if its a good bit of kit or not, perhaps you can start your own thread about what you believe relating to the aircraft and its capabilities or otherwise. My friends reckon its a good bit of kit and they fly it....do you?

They are not a good bit of kit they are flying death traps bought for EU political reasons ( there you go GH ). True they have excellent flying characteristics but that is small solace if they tend to crash.

All helicopters have two critical weak points which will cause an instant crash. Both are gearbox related. One is drive to the tail rotor. The other is the main gearbox which drives the main rotor.

The main gearbox on the Eurocopter has all sorts of stuff hung off the outside of the box and in the usual (extremely tough) world of 'copter operations the box tends to leak oil. Lack of oil will stress the gearbox main shaft and crown wheel. Eurocopter and Puma have strengthened major gearbox components and generally tried to tighten up the design. Maintenance inspections are supposed to be more frequent.

Operating any kind of aircraft is expensive, helicopters an order of magnitude more so. Thus the pressure to keep craft flying and squeeze maintenance costs is extreme.

If this does turn out to be gearbox related I would not be very surprised.

8 dead and 14 injured according to the latest news

my thoughts are with their families :-( :-(

Don't think the cause of the accident has been established yet and friends in the emergency services reckon its a decent bit of kit

The problems with the Eurocopter gearbox are of long standing, wide spread and well known. There have been a string of serious accidents. The design is deeply flawed.

For police and off shore work they should be replaced with Augusta Westland a.s.a.p and meanwhile operated with utmost caution and a very much reduced time to replacement for the gearbox oil pump.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2013-01-01/main-gearbox-remains-helicopters-achilles-heel

Have to echo what Ann says - always seems to be something awful in the run up to Christmas.
As well as heaps of praise for the emergency services a big thank you to Holiday Inn Express who is providing shelter and food for them.
Flags across Scotland are flying at half mast - I hope that flags across the ENTIRE UK will be flying at half mast