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Franks

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 11:31

Hi,
I'm looking for relatives of my nan, Lilian Franks who was born 24/06/1910. Her father was Joseph Franks and he was a Jew from Russia/Poland they lived in London. I have found a Joseph Franks from Russia married to Rose in the 1911 census but no mention of my nan. She had a brother David who lived in Edmonton, don't know if she had any other siblings. Would like to find out more about David Franks if poss.
Any help would be appreciated as I'm stuck!!

jax

jax Report 24 Jun 2011 14:06

Are you sure this is the correct couple as they say they had no children

1911 census - household transcription
Person: FRANKS, Joseph
Address: 1 Ellen ST


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FRANKS, Joseph Marr Married
4 years M 34 1877 Tailor Russia Res VIEW
FRANKS, Rose Wife Married
4 years F 24 1887 London St Jcs VIEW

jax

jax Report 24 Jun 2011 14:10

Do you have your nan's birth cert I cannot see her born 1910

Do you know her mothers maiden name?

jax

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 17:25

When I first found the 1911 censor I was sure that was them, but as my nan isn't on there I just don't know! I cannot find her birth record at all. Just spoken to my dad and he looked at her death certificate and it says she was born in Bethnal Green. He cannot remember the name of his gran which does not help but does remember my nan had a brother David. Unfortunately my dad didn't have much contact with my nans family as they were strict jews and when she was 17 she ran way from home and married a non jew, so they had no more to do with her. Now when I did a search for David Franks I found one born in St George in the East in 1923, mother's maiden name was Isaacs but obviously not sure this is her brother! So I'm stuck and was hoping if this David got married, which my dad thinks he did sometime in the 40's, and had a family maybe they would have more info!

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 17:25

When I first found the 1911 censor I was sure that was them, but as my nan isn't on there I just don't know! I cannot find her birth record at all. Just spoken to my dad and he looked at her death certificate and it says she was born in Bethnal Green. He cannot remember the name of his gran which does not help but does remember my nan had a brother David. Unfortunately my dad didn't have much contact with my nans family as they were strict jews and when she was 17 she ran way from home and married a non jew, so they had no more to do with her. Now when I did a search for David Franks I found one born in St George in the East in 1923, mother's maiden name was Isaacs but obviously not sure this is her brother! So I'm stuck and was hoping if this David got married, which my dad thinks he did sometime in the 40's, and had a family maybe they would have more info!

jax

jax Report 24 Jun 2011 17:40

Maybe she was not born as Franks

There was a lot of name changing around that time within the jewish community

jax

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 18:27

Maybe. If that's the case then I'm really stuck!!

I need to contact a medium!!!

I might look for possible marriages to David Franks and see if I get any tree matches. But thinking that side of the family will always be a mystery!!

Thanks for your help.

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 24 Jun 2011 19:27

http://www.genesreunited.com.au/boards.page/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1272449

patchem

patchem Report 24 Jun 2011 20:06

If that is the marriage and she ran away from home at 17 to marry, she was born in 1913. Walsall is a long way from London.
Could we have her marriage and death details?
Thank-you

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 20:12

No Cameron isn't my maiden name. She married a Charles Arthur Dole (or Arthur Charles Dole as his name was changed because of the initials!). She married him in 1927 in Stepney London. I did wonder whether her christian name may have changed but have tried searching for just Franks with no luck. Have found both her marriage records as she married twice, and death record, why not her birth certificate?

Lindsey - that thread was another I posted,

Thanks everyone.

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 20:23

Marriage record:
Name Lilian Franks
Year of Marriage 1927
Quarter of Marriage Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District Stepney
Registration County London
Spouse's Surname Dole
Volume Number 1C
Volume Page 440

Spouse Match: Lilian FRANKS married Charles A DOLE

Marriage record:
Spouse Match: George H W SANDERS married Lilian DOLE

Name Lilian Dole
Year of Marriage 1971
Quarter of Marriage Apr-May-Jun
Registration District Enfield
Registration County Middlesex
Spouse's Surname Sanders
Volume Number 5B
Volume Page 662


Death record:
Name Lilian Sanders
Year of Registration 1984
Month of Registration May
Registration District Haringey
Registration County London
Date of Birth 24 June 1910
Volume Number 12
Volume Page 1784

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 20:27

I have a photocopy of marriage certificate for her second marriage.
Her father is on there as Joseph Franks and he was a Tailor.

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 24 Jun 2011 20:53

If she married Mr Dole in 1927, at the age of 17, she must have been born ca 1910

How old does she say she is on the marriage certificate that you have?



sylvia

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 21:06

I only have a photocopy for the certificate for marriage no.2 and on that it says she was 60. That marriage was 12 June 1971. She would have been 61 12 days later on the 24th.

I haven't got any original certificates as I'm going by the marriage, birth, death records I find on here as I've only just started doing this. My dad has her death certificate and it says on there she was born 24 June 1910 and in Bethnal Green.

I wish I could see the 1921 census!!

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 24 Jun 2011 21:22

you have to wait another 10 years for that!

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 24 Jun 2011 21:27

Mind you, it would be very interesting to see that first marriage certificate

if she really was 17, then she was under-age ............ called a minor ........ and as such, would ahve needed permission from one or both parents.

So, she must have lied about her age!


Most of us recommend that you buy as many certificates as you can ....... and that would be one that I would definitely recommend.

You have a copy of the second, and that tells us a little bit, but not enough.



The birth date given on the death certificate may or may not be correct .............. most of the information on a death certificate is only what is known by the informant, and that may or may not be accurate! It is after all, only what the deceased told people, and they may have been secretive.


It is not unusual to find that the birth day and month are correct, but the year out by 1 or more years. Most people know the birthdate, but not also so certain about the year!


so one would be looking 2 or more years each side of 1910 in this case.



sylvia

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 22:20

Thanks Sylvia.

She did lie about her age she said she was 21! I think my dad might have that certificate.

How do I go about getting the certificates and is it expensive?

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 22:27

So maybe I found the wrong birth records for David Franks then as both my mum and dad remember him. He lived longer then 19 years. Suppose it makes sense as my nan was born around 1910 so 1923 was a bit of a gap! Back to a searching for him!!!

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 22:32

OK so can become an expensive hobby!!!

The birth record for the David Franks can't be the right family member as my dad remembers him and he was older than 19. So will search again for him!! Makes sense as a bit of a gap between him and my nan!

LisaCam68

LisaCam68 Report 24 Jun 2011 22:33

opps posted twice about David Franks!!