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Adopted Child - Help

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Claire

Claire Report 30 Aug 2011 07:33

Thanks Rose, I've contacted the Surrey History Centre, but I didn't know they had the ERs.

No, I've not ordered any of the certs as I wasn't sure if it was the same persons. But will speak to my sister and see if we can't get the funds together!

Many thanks

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 29 Aug 2011 19:27

The Surrey History Centre also has the electoral registers:

http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspages.nsf/LookupWebPagesByTITLE_RTF/Electoral+registers?opendocument

Rose

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 29 Aug 2011 19:10

Do you have the marriage cert to John Horton?

Rose

FAIRTHORN

FAIRTHORN Report 29 Aug 2011 12:24

1881 CENSUS DILWORTH FAMILY

Address 55, Drummond Crescent
Parish St Pancras
District Pancras, Somers Town
Administrative County Middlesex

Householder 1
Name William Dilworth
Age 30
Estimated Year of Birth 1851
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Packer
Birth Place St Pancras
Birth County Middlesex

Householder 2
Name Charlotte Dilworth
Age 30
Estimated Year of Birth 1851
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Greenwich
Birth County Kent

Householder 3
Name Charlotte Dilworth
Age 8
Estimated Year of Birth 1873
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place London
Birth County Middlesex

Householder 4
Name William Dilworth
Age 6
Estimated Year of Birth 1875
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place London
Birth County Middlesex

Householder 5
Name Dalun Dilworth ( Daniel )
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1876
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place London
Birth County Middlesex

Householder 6
Name Thomas Dilworth
Age 3
Estimated Year of Birth 1878
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place London
Birth County Middlesex

FAIRTHORN

FAIRTHORN Report 29 Aug 2011 11:50

SADLY POSSIBLE
Deaths Jun 1914
Carter Charlotte age 41 Edmonton 3a 527

Sadly perhaps, Winifred was late having a child cos of her mum having 12 & dying before her time !


Births Jun 1873
CARTER George Henry Hitchin 3a 308

Due to the ages of the children George possibly remarried
( a few possibles in the marriage indexes )


Looks like Charlotte Dilworth is on a few GR family trees & so she should be with all those children, she must have a few descendants.

Charlotte Dilworth 1873 St Pancras, London

Claire

Claire Report 29 Aug 2011 11:10

This is amazing. You folks are fab! OK, will process all the stuff.

FAIRTHORN

FAIRTHORN Report 29 Aug 2011 11:03

1911 census 10 children + Winifield + sadly the child that died = 12


can not pinpoint the correct May Carter (Estimated Year of Birth 1896)


Births Mar 1892
Carter Charlotte Rachel Islington 1b 224
Births Jun 1893
Carter Maude Emily Islington 1b 417
Births Dec 1894
Carter Rose Hannah Islington 1b 391


Births Dec 1897
Carter Clara Edith Islington 1b 421
Births Dec 1899
Carter George Henry T Edmonton 3a 42
Births Mar 1902
Carter Alice Edmonton 3a 535
Births Mar 1906
Carter William Daniel F Edmonton 3a 471
Births Mar 1908
Carter Beatrice Gertrude Edmonton 3a 494
Births Mar 1910
CARTER Arthur Albert F Edmonton 3a 453
Births Sep 1911
Carter Winifred V N Dilworth Edmonton 3a 939

FAIRTHORN

FAIRTHORN Report 29 Aug 2011 10:57

NOTE SOME OF THE CHILDREN HAVE MORE TWO FIRST NAMES
LIKE WINIFRED VIOLET NELLIE

1911 CENSUS

Household information
Address 47 Campsbourne Road Hornsey
Parish Hornsey
Town Hornsey
Type of Building Private House Grd Fr Tent
Number of Rooms 5 Rooms
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN7220 RG78PN353 RD132 SD1 ED28 SN49
Administrative County Middlesex
Registration District Edmonton
Registration Sub District Hornsey
Enumeration District 28

Householder 1
Name George Henry Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Condition / Years Married / Years
Gender M
Age 38
Estimated Year of Birth 1873
Occupation Plasterer
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Hitchin Herts
Nationality British

Householder 2
Name Charlotte Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Condition / Years Married / Years
Total Children Born Alive 11 <<<<<<<<<<<<
Children Still Living 10
Children Who Have Died 1
Gender F
Age 38
Estimated Year of Birth 1873
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth St Pancras London

Householder 3
Name Charlotte Rachell Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married / Years
Gender F
Age 19
Estimated Year of Birth 1892
Occupation Collar Machinist
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Upper Holloway London

Householder 4
Name Maeude Emily Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married / Years
Gender F
Age 18
Estimated Year of Birth 1893
Occupation Laundress Collar Curler
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Highbury London

Householder 5
Name May Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married / Years
Gender F
Age 15
Estimated Year of Birth 1896
Occupation Nil
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Highbury London

Householder 6
Name Clares Edith Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married / Years
Gender F
Age 13
Estimated Year of Birth 1898
Occupation Scholar
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Highbury London

Householder 7
Name George Henry Thomas Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married / Years
Gender M
Age 11
Estimated Year of Birth 1900
Occupation Scholar
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Harringey Middlesex

Householder 8
Name Alice Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Gender F
Age 9
Estimated Year of Birth 1902
Occupation Scholar
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Edmonton Middlesex

Householder 9
Name William Daniel Frank Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Gender M
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1906
Occupation Scholar
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Hornsey Middlesex

Householder 10
Name Beatrice Gertrude Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Gender F
Age 3
Estimated Year of Birth 1908
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Hornsey Middlesex

Householder 11
Name Arthur Albert Frederick Carter
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Gender M
Age 14 Months
Estimated Year of Birth 1910
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Hornsey Middlesex

FAIRTHORN

FAIRTHORN Report 29 Aug 2011 10:46

Marriages Dec 1891
Carter George Henry Islington 1b 433
Dilworth Charlotte Islington 1b 433



POSSIBLE ANCESTORS CARTER/DILWORTH
1901 CENSUS

Address 131 Warwick Rd
Civil Parish Edmonton
Rural District
Town or Village or Hamlet
Ecclesiastical Parish All Saints
Parliamentary Borough or Division Enfield Div
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Edmonton U D
Administrative County Middlesex

Householder 1
Name Charlotte Carter
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 28
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London St Pancras
Language
Infirmity

Householder 2
Name Charlotte R Carter
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 9
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington
Language
Infirmity

Householder 3
Name Clara E Carter
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 3
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington
Language
Infirmity

Householder 4
Name George H Carter
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 28
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Plasterer
Employment Status
Where Born Herts Hitcham
Language
Infirmity

Householder 5
Name George H J Carter
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 1
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Middx Hornsey
Language
Infirmity

Householder 6
Name Maude E Carter
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 7
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington
Language
Infirmity

Householder 7
Name May Carter
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 4
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington
Language
Infirmity

Householder 8
Name Rose H Carter
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 6
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington
Language
Infirmity

Householder 9
Name Maude C Dilworth
Relation to Head of Family Sister In Law
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 10
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington
Language
Infirmity

Householder 10
Name Alfred Keighley
Relation to Head of Family Visitor
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 8
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born N K
Language
Infirmity

Householder 11
Name George Keighley
Relation to Head of Family Visitor
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 4
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington
Language
Infirmity

Householder 12
Name Gertrude M Keighley
Relation to Head of Family Visitor
Condition as to Marriage Single
Age Last Birthday 2
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born London Islington
Language
Infirmity

FAIRTHORN

FAIRTHORN Report 29 Aug 2011 09:42

If this were my search, I would spend £9.25 buying the death certificate

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

If John W Horton sadly predeceased her, someone else must have registered her death.

When you consider ladies can have a late birth in their mid forties.




:-)

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 29 Aug 2011 09:17

If that is the death you've found, and dob given is correct, she won't be on the 1911 census. That was taken 2 Apr. Of course, it is possible that the informant made an error.

If your mother was 'living in' at the Haslemere household, it is likely that if she is on the ER, no other family members are listed. But Stranger things have happened!

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 29 Aug 2011 08:44

Just to say - the ER was updated at least annually, and for many years (can't quite remember which ones) it was updated twice a year. Records are normally kept at the nearest main library for the area.

It does seem odd to have a child quite late then marry, but with such a distinctive name it must be the same person surely?
Have you got this?

Name: Winifred Violet Horton
Birth Date: 25 Jul 1911
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1976
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 13
Page: 1455

jan

Claire

Claire Report 29 Aug 2011 08:39

Yes, I agree Rose. That is why I am so hesitant. As a family, we always thought that she was a young mother. It appears my mother was born in Guildford (St Lukes) and kept there until her adoption.

The birth mother was working in Haslemere as a housemaid in the Nursery. I have contacted the British Library to see if I can access the ER and I have the full address in Haslemere in order to access it. How often was the ER updated (I know it is a dumb question - is it every 4 years?). It does state that she was living at that address at the time of birth.

I have my Mother's complete and utter approval. It was her that asked me to investigate and she wouldn't know where to start looking (and of course the emotional element is removed a little with her daughter looking for her!). Of course, we are well aware that it is most likely her birth mother has died, but it has been a very difficult acceptance for her that she was adopted and I do not want to cause any more unnecessary grief in this 'searching' stage. Once I have more concrete information to give her, I will prepare her!! We are certainly hoping for siblings - that would be wonderful.

My mother has contacted NORCAP in the past, but they just really offered her councilling. She is on the adoptive persons register but that has never come to anything.

I agree about the 1911 birth, but on searching her it is the only birth I can find with the correct name - Winnifred Violet Nellie Carter. If you have any other suggestions on how I could find someone younger, it would be most appreciated.

Thank you dear folks for all your comments, you can't begin to know how much I appreciate your time.

Thanks, Claire
:-D

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 29 Aug 2011 02:33

Have to wonder if the birth in 1911 is the correct one. Seems unlikely she had a child at 37 and then married for the first time at 39.

Rose

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 28 Aug 2011 23:36

It would be well worth looking on the ER for the address given on the birth certificate, with the hope that it is a private address, and not a mothers and babies home. Remember that the ER is only search-able by address, not by name.

If it is, and with other people with the same surname, then it might be an idea to purchase the MC to see if the father and/or witnesses match up with the ER. Then take it from there, either looking for the mother's birth, the 1911 census or buying the DC to confirm that it is the same person.

Although your mother may be sad, she should at least be expecting your grandmother to be deceased.

Is she prepared to find that she may have half siblings, not that it is advisable to contact them out of the blue? Perhaps the suggestion of counselling by an agency might be considered, unless this has already occurred.

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 28 Aug 2011 23:19

Oops! Will delete, grey moment there!
Thanks!
jan

patchem

patchem Report 28 Aug 2011 23:13

The war ended in 1945...........

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 28 Aug 2011 23:02



Have you tried contacting NORCAP for advice?

www.norcap.org.uk

Jan

Claire

Claire Report 28 Aug 2011 22:54

Hi ya. All new to this so apologies if I muck up! I'm armed with only the original birth cert and adoption papers. I've searched on here and although I may have found the birth mother, I can't risk advising my mother (who was the adoptee) until I have more concrete information.

Just wanted advice really on how I can get more concrete information for her? The birth year was 1948, and she was adopted two months afterwards. I know where the birth mother was working at the time my mother was born and I'm trying to gain access to the electoral register of that year and district.

From the records here I note that a woman with her name (and in the correct district) was born (in 1911), married two years after having my mother (1950) and possibly subsequently died in 1976. Hence my caution....

Any tips you may have would greatly help.

Yours in hope and many, many thanks.

Claire x <3