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Unknown,

If the home was local authority run or by an organisation detailed paperwork may not have survived but admission and discharge books were usaully archived,and will have been disposited with local record office or archive these have a closure of a number of years on them some 100 some 75 some 50.,,,,unless you are seeking your own information then access can be given for that information to be released in copy form.

Discharge information usually state into whos care the discharge was made.

Charlie's birth certificate is due for delivery on 8th March - the other's are coming 23rd.

So i guess you need to trace what happened to Wilfred & Annie Wells if you can? Can't recall if we had this so just in case:

Marriages Mar 1916
Barrett Annie Wells Dewsbury 9b 1233
Wells Wilfred Barrett Dewsbury 9b 1233

Oh how did you find this? I have been looking for their names but I couldn't find anything - I think I'm useless at this!! Should I order their birth certificates or find their death records? I 'm assuming Wilfred died and that's why only the grandmother took Jacqueline. Oh there I go again, assuming things!!!

I just want to say a MASSIVE thank you to every single one of you who have taken the time to read my post and take time out of your own lives to help me with your research and advice. I certainly didn't expect this support when I signed up. You're helping me to make my father's wish for almost 70 years come true and it means an awful lot - THANK YOU each and every one of you. Pete

I was speaking to my father and he seems to think it's possible that Jacqueline didn't go into care - that the grandmother took her. He's not sure. He's a bit of a closed book as it's all very emotional for him so I'm trying to get him to remember little things. It's all so long ago and the problem is he found it all so hurtful that he forced himself to forget - so now, after 68 years he's struggling to remember. He doesn't recall hardly anything of the paternal grandparentsr except they were extremley well off.

Think you need to get the marriage certificate for Wilfred/Annie so we have their ages and fathers names. Then they can probably be located on the 1911 census and theiir deaths found.

There is a death for wilfred in Dewsbury 1934, but without his age it is impossible to know if this is the same person. Just thinking, if they really were well off there may be probate records.

I've been trying to work through Alice Watson/George West children, and think their oldest Jack died within weeks of birth in 1933. Looks like Eric died in 1944, but this still leaves a number of other possibles between 1938 and 1950, including George. During your conversations have they referred to any other names - I think there may have been a Laura?

Peter, I feel a bit guilty for not pointing out this site to you before. It's called Freebmd, free and easy to use. It's the first place to go for births, marriages and deaths 1837-about 1955.

www.freebmd.org.uk

Do have a look - you can play around and find the wells/barrett marriage Dewsbury for example.

You do need the marriage cert, I agree, to track down Wilfred and Annie. I can't see births for them in Dewsbury unfortunately which would help to ascertain if that is Wilfred's death as found above.

Jan

I think the death might be right you know. This is the only Wilfred Wells I can see in Dewsbury in 1911 and it would account for no birth record in the area. It is also the right YOB to match the death (the Wilfred who died 1934 was 52).

1911 England Census

Name: Wilfred Wells
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wyke Nr Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Batley
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 41 Carlinghow Lane Batley
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Spinner
Registration district: Dewsbury
Registration District Number: 503
Sub-registration district: Batley

James Hesketh Wells 54
Emily Ann Wells 52
Wilfred Wells 29
Harriet Emily Wells 24
Arthur Wells 13
Herbert Wells 10
Louie Wells 1

Just another clue it is him - note no middle name as with marriage. You still need the marriage cert to be sure though.

Births Dec 1881 (>99%)
WELLS Wilfred Bradford 9b 1

Jan

Still thinking of trying to find more of Irene's siblings to see if we can track any of them down - or at least their children. As they were close to Alice, had a look at her possible children - Laura looked promising, but think she died in 2001.

I can't find a death for Alice's son George, but it looks like he may have married Anne M in 1961. Can't find a death for her either, but 192.com has a George and Anne M in Dewsbury, over 65 and still on the 2012 ER. I can't find a phone number, but will PM the address - it's got to be worth checking. IF he is the right one he would be older than Sandra and may remember more.

Well done Flip - you are doing a fab job, good thing you are on board! Surely with all this information something will turn up to help Peter?
Jan

Thanks Jan, you're doing a pretty good job yourself!! Lets hope Peter can get somewhere with all this.

There's an Anne Barrett on the 1911 census in Dewsbury, I think born 1891 - could be worth checking? No sub for this I'm afraid.

I found her, but she is a servant so not too helpful. And there are a lot of Annie Kerr deaths with a birth year 1891-ish so not as promising as Wilfred. Not even given a birthplace!

EDIT I lie, on original she is born Bradford - that makes it rather promising!

Here she is though:

1911 England Census

Name: Anne Barrett
Age in 1911: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Civil parish: Morley
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: Oakedale Morley
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Domestic Servant General
Registration district: Dewsbury
Registration District Number: 503
Sub-registration district: Morley

Reginald Hasgall 25
Mabel Hasgall 23
Dorothy Brodley 20
Ella Brodley 6/12
Anne Barrett 20

Looks like 3 births Bradford 1890/91 so not so straight forward. Jan have you found a second marriage for Annie to a Kerr?

Flip, not sure about that 2nd marriage query?

The only thing I wondered was whether Annie re-married after Wilfred died, as she was only about 44, but I would thin the family would know about this.

Jan

Jan, you referred to deaths for Annie Kerr - but I hadn't found anything to connect her to that name? Just checking if I'd missed a marriage.

Sorry, Flip, should have said there are no deaths Dewsbury as far as I can see, but there are a few in the West Riding, including one in Bradford as it happens, so impossible to pin down really. And she could have gone anywhere of course!
Jan

Thought you'd found another marriage! Not easy to find the Annie Wells death like you say there are too many possibilities but none in Dewsbury and she could have gone anywhere.

I wonder if there is a probate record for the James Hesketh Wells from the 1911 census?

Looks like he was born 1856 Shoreditch, married Emily Ann Bairstow in Halifax 1876 and died in dewsbury in 1923 (think she died Dewsbury 1919 but haven't found her birth).

Not sure we can go much further with this until some of the certificates turn up, or Peter gets any more information from relatives. I haven't had much luck in tracing any more of the Watson descendants.

I agree, maybe it's time to hang on and wait for more concrete information to arrive. Peter probably needs to gather his thoughts a bit too with all this flying at him!
Not sure if this has come across - there was quite a bit of PMing a while back about the possible 2nd marriage for Charlie - but Peter is awaiting a reply from the person with him in their family tree.
Jan