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OWENS/COOPER ....JUDD/COOPER

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Pam

Pam Report 16 Jan 2013 01:20

Hilda Mabel COOPER 1908-1978 and Sidney R. OWENS 1887-1957
Married 1942 England

Maybe their children but not sure:
Sidney L. OWENS born 1930
Sidney R. OWENS 1932
John F. OWENS 1936

Also Hilda's sister Lilian Olivia COOPER 1903-? and Arthur Harry JUDD ??
married in 1923

Maybe a son Harry JUDD 1923

Both Hilda and Lilian are my grandfathers baby sisters and I would like to find their sons if still alive or if any one knows of the family.

Would be very grateful for any help in this area.

Pam....NZ
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~shamere/

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 16 Jan 2013 01:58

Is this the marriage for Hilda because Sidney was also known by another name. Are you sure the children were born BEFORE the marriage?

Marriages Dec 1942
Cooper Hilda M Owens Lambeth 1d 396
Cooper Hilda M Wilton Lambeth 1d 396
Owens Sidney R Cooper Lambeth 1d 396
Wilton Sid Cooper Lambeth 1d 396

Not seeing a marriage and birth for a Lilian Olive with the years you mention.

There's this birth:

Births Dec 1903
Cooper Lily Olivia Wandsworth 1d 609

and this marriage:

Marriages Mar 1923 (>99%)
Cooper Lily Judd Hammersmith 1a 427
Judd Arthur H Cooper Hammersmith 1a 427

Are you sure this is your Lilian?


Rose

Pam

Pam Report 16 Jan 2013 04:01

Hi Rose

Yes I know it looks confusing but the family told me Hilda married Sid OWENS and had three boys Leo - Roy & Jack, but that was all they could remember of the family. It has been a puzzle but think the boys were born before the marriage, why - don't know.

As for Lily - Lillian - Lilian, have found her name spelt with any of those spelling is married to JUDD, the family told me that but once again that is all they know.

Would like to find any of the boys if I could.

many thanks for your help

Pam....NZ

patchem

patchem Report 16 Jan 2013 06:51

If you believe you have the correct marriage or birth, then buy the certificate to verify.
Never believe what anyone in the family tells you.
What information is that link meant to tell us, as I did not want to plough through hundreds of pages?
Have you checked to see if anyone on genes has any of the family in their trees?

For Hilda/Sidney, are we looking for 3 sons born 1924 to 1942 surname Cooper/Cooper, first name Roy, Jack or Leo, in Wandsworth, Hammersmith, Lambeth area? Or are they Owens/Cooper?

Have you got the birth certificate for exact date of birth to help in identification?
Births Dec 1903
Cooper Lily Olivia Wandsworth 1d 609

Pam

Pam Report 16 Jan 2013 07:59

The cousin who gave me the information has since passed away, He was born 1917 and was in his teens when his cousins were born. His mother was the eldest and Hilda and Lilian were the youngest of the family. The boys were all known as OWENS and the other one JUDD, so I am taking it that they were given their fathes surname, through the JUDD family were married..
My grandfather was in the middle of the family and by the time they were born he was in NZ with a family of his own, he had also passed away before I got interested in genealogy.

First place I checked, there in no one else with this family on Genes - ancestry - Famlysearch or any where else.

Many thanks for your help

Pam....NZ

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 16 Jan 2013 08:29

Do you have the family in 1911? What are your dad's details?

Rose

Pam

Pam Report 16 Jan 2013 09:49

This is the 1911 cenus for my g/grandmother and the family.

COOPER, May Anne Head/Widow F 43 1868 Domestic Cook Clapham London
COOPER, Maude Daughter/Single F 18 1893 Waitress Wandsworth London
COOPER, John Son/Single M 15 1896 Engineer Scholar Wandsworth London
COOPER, Horace Son/Single M 12 1899 School Wandsworth London
COOPER, Silian (Lilian)Daughter F 8 1903 School Fulham London
COOPER, Hilda Daughter F 2 1909 Fulham London

Parish Fulham......114 Farm Lane Fulham London......RG14...329
Maud married 1912
Gordon is not living with them married 1925
John is my grandfather married in 1919 NZ
Horace got killed in the war
Lilian married JUDD
Hilda married OWENS

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 16 Jan 2013 16:13

Looks like Sidney R married an Ida Gwynne and had a son:

Births Dec 1916 (>99%)
Owens John T Gwynne Aston 6d 697

This might explain why he wasn't free to marry Hilda.

Could this be Jack?

Rose

patchem

patchem Report 16 Jan 2013 18:34

Just trying to sort out, Sidney R originally from Birmingham area?
Marriages Jun 1914
Gwynne Ida Owens Aston 6d 792
Owens Sidney R Gwynne Aston 6d 792
and the only Ida Gwynne showing:
Births Mar 1892
Gwynne Ida Aston 6d 253
If the cousin was in his teens when all the sons were born, then 1930 to 1937 approx.
Just because they were known as Owens does not mean that it was on the birth certificates?
Any ideas about the Wilton surname?
Have you got the death certificates to see if the informants were any of the sons?

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 17 Jan 2013 00:30

Forget John T Owens. He died shortly after birth:

Deaths Dec 1916
Owens John T 0 Aston 6d 464

Rose

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 17 Jan 2013 00:51

Ida remarried:

Marriages Sep 1935
Gwynne Ida Wood Solihull 6d 2594
Owens Ida Wood Solihull 6d 2594
Wood William E Gwynne Solihull 6d 2594

Rose

Pam

Pam Report 17 Jan 2013 19:01

To answer Rose and Patchem, many thanks for all your help. Have not got certificates yet as not sure if on the right track or not. A descendant of Maud passed through NZ last week on her way home and has promised to ask many questions among the family to see if any one knows any information that would give me a clue.

Found Sidney in the census which sounds right as Sidney Raeesah OWENS.

Don't know what the WILTON name is, as Hilda married OWENS with the COOPER surname, I assumed she hadn't been married before.

Never checked if Sidney had been married before. If Ida was Sidney's first wife, then she remarried in 1935, so he was free to marry, why wait until 1942?

The puzzle gets more complicated.

Pam....NZ