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Taylor's from Lewisham

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Scott

Scott Report 12 May 2013 12:29

indeed ... it also states that she has been married to Edwin Twist for 4 year but again I have not been able to find a marriage record.

So if there are no marriage records can we assume she was never married?
or could it be that the marriage was never registered?


Flip

Flip Report 12 May 2013 11:57

You're right, I hadn't looked at the census as it had been posted earlier - and the ancestry transcription is wrong :-S

I assume she is referring to her first marriage as you say, but then again there are a lot of 1911 census records stating married xx years - when they are proved to be totally fictitious.

Scott

Scott Report 12 May 2013 10:39

I found Elizabeth's first that gave me Janes maiden name of Peters.

If you look at the 1911 census return there are is two lots of information regarding years married children etc. one entry which has been crossed out reads

Jane Twist Wife
age 33
Married 12 years
Children born alive 7
Children still living 5
Children who have died 2

These are then crossed out and replaced with ...

Married 4 years
Children born alive 2
Children still living 2
Children who have died 0

I wonder if the first entry related to her marriage to Alfred?
Which would give the marriage date of 1899

Flip

Flip Report 11 May 2013 18:31

Maybe the middle name came from a confirmation? I have a middle name gained from being confirmed, but it was not, nor ever had been my official name. Don't know what religion your family were, but catholics were asked to choose a confirmation name - just to confuse matter even further!

Don't trust tenuous links to areas, our ancestors were more mobile than you think.

OK, so if I've got this right we are looking for a Mary or Jane (or both) Peters/Alfred Taylor marriage, we think before your ggm Alice was born in 1899.

How come you got Elizabeth's bc rather than your ggm? - just curious.

Scott

Scott Report 11 May 2013 17:47

Thanks for the help i will investigate the Twist family a little more. That was one reason of using genes reunited to try and track down any info.

I agree i think "Harold" is a little miss leading. My mum has told me Alice's middle name was Ada but i've never seen any reference so the middle name thing maybe something the family just did.

as for the census i know its not 100% it was more a process of elimination. there are only a handful Alfred Taylor's born in Essex from 1872-1876 of which 2 were born in the West Ham area Alfred in 1874 & Alfred Reginald in 1875. It was Alfred Reginald. So i assumed it was the first a 1880 census returned that entry. Also Ephraim & his family had firm links with Manchester which fitted the oldham & Jane Peters links.

Of course all this could be completely wrong and until i track down a Wedding Certificate then there is no way of being 100% certain.

the search continues :0)


Flip

Flip Report 11 May 2013 16:48

Shirley is right, the Twists may give some info. Although the birth cert for Alice may also be useful.

Elizabeth's birth cert does not give her father's middle name, so I wonder if Alice just imagined/invented it at the time of her marriage?

Also, that 1881 census for Alfred is rather dubious don't you think - there is no way you can tie him back to that, other than Walthamstow fell into the West Ham reg district.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 11 May 2013 15:58

Scott

I really would recommend you follow the Twist family for info on Jane / Mary Jane

Family info gets passed down the family . some are little white lies to cover indiscretions but some do have fact.

Did you see that Emily Twist was living with her dad and Alice on the electoral rolls ?

it may be that Jane and he parted and some children went with him.

His medal roll for WW1 has survived but not his Army record unfortunately

Scott

Scott Report 11 May 2013 15:48

Hi Flip


No I'm just going by what is on the certificate

Here the census information i have found

1881 Census ...

28 Hermit Road, West Ham, Essex, England

Esther Lewis abt 1815 Aldgate, Middlesex, England Lodger
Alfred Taylor abt 1874 West Ham, Essex, England Son
Ann Taylor abt 1870 Erith, Kent, England Daughter
Daniel Taylor abt 1871 Erith, Kent, England Son
Ephraim Taylor abt 1840 Clay Cross, Derbyshire, England Head
Ephriam Taylor abt 1868 Erith, Kent, England Son
Jane Taylor abt 1839 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife
William Taylor abt 1860 Manchester, Lancashire, England Son

1891
I've found the same taylor family but I've not found Alfred yet

1901

23 Davids Road, Lewisham

Alfred Taylor 27 Waltomstowe Head
Alice Taylor 1 Oldham, Lancashire, England Daughter
Elizth Taylor 3 weeks Forest Hill, London, England Daughter
Jane Taylor 23 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife

There is a BMD entry for Jun 1874 for a Alfred Taylor Registered in West Ham

I don't have Alice's birth certificate I am ordering that next week. But i do have Elizabeth's....

8th March 1901
23 Davids Road Forest Hill

Father Alfred Taylor
Profession Contractors Horse Keeper
Mother Jane Taylor formerly Peters

thanks for the help

Scott



Flip

Flip Report 11 May 2013 15:20

Hi Scott,

Do you have anything other than the marriage certificate to confirm his full name? It's just there is no birth reg for Alfred Harold Taylor 1870-1880 that I can find. Is his birth place/year just based on the 1901 census or do you have something else to back this up?

Also, do you have Alice's birth certificate, I see her mmn is Peters on Lancsbmd, and she was registered in Chadderton, Oldham, but does this confirm the fathers full name - and mother's full name?

There is a birth for Mary Jane in 1876, but no just Jane

Scott

Scott Report 11 May 2013 14:38

I have the marriage certificate from 1917 of my great grandmother Alice Taylor which states her father as Alfred Harold Taylor (deceased) occupation Horsekeeper

I do know that Alfred was born in Walthamstow about 1874.
Jane Peters or it could be Mary Jane Peters was born in Ardwick Manchester 1876.

Alice Taylor was born in Oldham on the 24th Sept 1899.

I neither have found a marriage certificate for Alfred & Jane.

Flip

Flip Report 11 May 2013 12:05

Where did you get Alfred Taylor's middle name from? The only birth for an Alfred Harold I can see is in Kent in 1881, and a marriage for him in 1905.

Do you have any of the Taylor/Peters children's birth certificates, or have you found a marriage for Alfred Taylor to Jane? I can't see a marriage for them, nor a birth in the right area of Lancashire for Jane Peters.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 10 May 2013 18:08

electoral roll addresses


Name: Alfred Twist
Year: 1913
County or Borough: Lewisham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Lewisham
Street Address: 66 Stanstead road, Forest Hill

still therei n 1915



1924
London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 about Alfred Ed Twist
Name: Alfred Ed Twist
Year: 1924
County or Borough: Lewisham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Lewisham
41 Davids Road, Honor Park Ward
with Alice Eva Twist

same address in 1925/26/28/1931

Name: Alfred Edwin Twist
Year: 1932
County or Borough: Lewisham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Lewisham
Street Address: 150 Kilmorie Road Forest Hill

with Alice Eva AND his daughter Emily Twist b1910 (so she isnt living with her mum)

still at the same address in 1937 with Alice Eva

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 10 May 2013 17:28

You have traced the Twist side .

Alfred Oliver only died. In 2003 , maybe his family can tell you what happened to their mum Jane




Civil Registration event: Marriage

PrintClose
MarriageFinder: Alfred O Twist married Winifred G Miller
Name: TWIST, Alfred O
Registration district: Hastings
County: Sussex
Year of registration: 1932
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Miller
Volume no: 2B
Page no: 121


Name: MILLER, Winifred G
Registration district: Hastings
County: Sussex
Year of registration: 1932
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Twist
Volume no: 2B
Page no: 121



Name: Winifred Gladys Twist
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1908
Date of Registration: Feb 1990
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Eastbourne
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 18
Page: 678

Scott

Scott Report 10 May 2013 15:59

Thats what i'm thinking too :0)

It muddies the water a little but i can still trace most of the Twist family to Hastings. Its the Taylors that i'm struggling to track down.






Reggie

Reggie Report 10 May 2013 15:50

People didn't necessarily tell the truth on census returns............


Scott

Scott Report 10 May 2013 15:45

I'm assuming Jane re married as the 1911 Census return as her down as married for 4 years and her name is Twist and not taylor.

I've not been able to find any other reference to the married so i'm not 100% they did marry



Reggie

Reggie Report 10 May 2013 15:40

No second forename recorded on the index of the 1907 death

Reggie

Reggie Report 10 May 2013 15:37

In which year was the marriage?

Scott

Scott Report 10 May 2013 15:35

My Great Grandmother marriage certificate it states Alfred is deceased and there is a death record for an Alfred Taylor who died in 1907 in Greenwich. Which fits with the dates from the 1911 Census.

Reggie

Reggie Report 10 May 2013 15:29

Purely for INFO

1911 census

Person: TWIST, Alfred Edwin Address: 12 Davids Road Forest Hill S E

TWIST, Alfred Edwin Head Married M 26 1885 Painter And Paper Hanger Hanger Forest Hill London VIEW
TWIST, Jane Wife Married4 years F 33 1878 Ardwich Manchester VIEW
TAYLOR, Alice Daughter F 11 1900 School Manchester VIEW
TAYLOR, Lizie Daughter F 10 1901 School Forest Hill VIEW
TAYLOR, Jane Daughter F 5 1906 Greenwich VIEW
TWIST, Alfred Oliver Son M 2 1909 Forest Hill VIEW
TWIST, Emily Elizabeth Daughter F 1 1910 Forest Hill VIEW
PIGGOTT, Frank Visitor Single M 24 1887 Builder's Labourer Sydenham London

You state that Jane re-married.............have you checked that her first husband actually died?