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Military teminology

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Eileen

Eileen Report 5 Jun 2014 19:54

Does anyone know the meaning of the word"Cicutenant"? It is on a War Memorial board in the Baptist chapel in Inskip, pops up in every section when Googled but even Google can't define it and it is not in any dictionary.

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 5 Jun 2014 21:31

How is the word used on the memorial board ?

My first thought was Lieutenant

Sirius

Sirius Report 6 Jun 2014 13:53

I think it's popping up on Google because the text from which it originates has been scanned using optical character recognition

From examples elsewhere it would seem almost certain to be Lieutenant .

Eileen

Eileen Report 6 Jun 2014 20:44

My first thought also was Lieutenant but the following extracts from several google results, even in different languages, shows the word "Cicutenant" exists. Surely optical character recognition scanning would not have been used in every case?
The memorial board in the Chapel says "Cicutenant John Crook RNAC ASC. Mentioned in dispatches St. George's Cross"

Google's acronym results for RNAC & ASC are also rather unlikely in this Military context. Can anyone enlighten me please?

Jft/rst ^Cicutenant SoorffO 77. ItJi/dcs warriors under (Jo!, linc, with Captain Brown aa the Cicutenant Colonel, and Li ...
Lieutenant Lawrence Second Cicutenant Charles \V.
Absalom Martin Cicutenant. Ephraim Whitlotk Cioutenant.
Wintcrquartickkt! noch en- -Cicutenant Marfchall-Cicutenant, Herr Graf
Oilman, ber Cicutenant 3n»(>$»f'at*, ber beffen «eben. bnbí'-? bffípqt bade, ???1? feineë Der general und Obrifi cicutenant von der guarclc Fiirfc

was plain ann now annielaurie

was plain ann now annielaurie Report 6 Jun 2014 23:02

It has to be Lieutenant. The paragraph you've posted, which doesn't really make sense,must refer to Second Lieutenant and Lieutenant Colonel.

Was he WW1 or WW2?

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 7 Jun 2014 00:03

ASC could be the Army Service Corps. The RASC is the same thing - it got the prefix 'Royal' in 1918.

http://www.1914-1918.net/asc.htm

(good old google!)

Not got a clue on RNAC though.

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 7 Jun 2014 10:30

Have you actually seen the memorial board or a picture of it or contacted the Baptish Church as surely they must have a translation of it.

Eileen

Eileen Report 8 Jun 2014 08:43

I have actually seen the board and have taken a photograph of it. Hopefully I will be able to visit the chapel again this summer to make more enquiries. The "paragraph" is just a series of extracts from the many Google results, posted to show that the word Cicutenant is used by people other than the carver of the board. I agree Lieutenant is most likely to be the translation but I would like to satisfy my curiosity in a more positive way. If I discover the Regiment, I can enquire through their records about the dispatches and the St. George's Cross mentioned on the board. Up to now,my research into St. George's Cross recipients has had negative results.
Thank you all for your interest, I appreciate it.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 8 Jun 2014 10:08

1891
JOHN CROOK HEAD MARRIED Male 45 1846 FARMER LANCASHIRE
ALICE CROOK WIFE MARRIED Female 31 1860 - LANCASHIRE
ALICE M CROOK DAUGHTER - Female 5 1886 - LANCASHIRE
JOHN CROOK JUN SON - Male 3 1888 - LANCASHIRE
IDA L CROOK DAUGHTER - Female 1 1890
Birth county LANCASHIRE
House name POPLAR GROVE
Street ECCLESTON ROAD
Parish INSKIP
Town INSKIP
County Lancashire
Country ENGLAND
Parliamentary borough LANCASTER
Ecclesiastical disctrict INSKIP
Registration district GARSTANG
Enumeration district 3
Series RG12
Piece number 3460
Folio number 30
Page 15


Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services. Royal Naval Air Service RNAS. Name Crook, John. Official Number: F9708. Place of Birth: Inskip with Sownby, Yorkshire. Date of Birth: 04 November 1887.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D6807886

(Record can be downloaded from above £3.30)


Lancashire Evening Post 05 January 1918

St. George's Cross for Inskip Man.
Petty Officer J. Crook, son of Mr. J. Crook, of Poplar Grove, Inskip, has been awarded the St. George's Cross, for distinguished service with an armoured car in the Russian retreat from Galicia, on July 17th 1917. Petty Officer Crook, who was formerly in business in Glasgow, joined up in 1915, and for the past two years has been with Commander Locker Lampson in Russia and Roumania, returning home about eight weeks ago. He has been through innumerable adventures, and travelled many thousands of miles in his car, but has been fortunate enough to have escaped with nothing more serious than fever.

(with photo)

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

Chris :)


https://www.thegazette.co.uk/

(would have thought above, somewhere)

edits (below)

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30687/supplement/5857


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/medals-british-armed-services-gallantry.htm


(quite a bit on google, Oliver Locker Lampson Royal Naval Air Service Armoured Car Division)

Sirius

Sirius Report 8 Jun 2014 15:47

The googled results quoted above are using OCR, if you look at originals you will see that the L and e are in script which doesn't lend itself to easy transcription.

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 8 Jun 2014 17:04

He also had the standard Victory and British War medals - same service number as on Chris's discoveries:

UK, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972

Name: John Crook
Medal or Award: Victory Medal, British War Medal
Service Year: 1914-1920
Service Location: Europe
Campaign or Service: World War I
Service number: F 9708

His 'rank or rating' was P.O.M.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 8 Jun 2014 20:27

Seems John Crook Senior, and his Father before him, have strong links with Inskip, and the Chapel, quite a bit on google.

(also on below, from National Archives, Access to Archives, john crook 'exact wording', inskip in one of 'boxes' above)

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/advanced-search.aspx?tab=1

Chris :)

(John, Senior, below)

Lancashire Evening Post 24 June 1920

Deaths
Crook - At Poplar Grove, Inskip, on the 22nd, John Crook aged 75. Interment at the Baptist Chapel, Inskip, on Saturday at 2 p.m.


Marriage: 5 Jan 1885 St Mary, Lancaster, Lancashire, England
John Crook - full age, Farmer, Bachelor, Poplar Grove, Inskip
Alice Willacy - full age, Spinster, Lancaster
Groom's Father: John Crook, Farmer
Bride's Father: Robert Willacy, Farmer
Witness: Joseph Clarke; Sara J. Crook; Arthur W. Crook; Elizabeth Ray
Married by Licence by: C. O. L. Riley
Register: Marriages 1875 - 1889, Page 172, Entry 344
Source: LDS Film 1526202

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Eileen

Eileen Report 8 Jun 2014 22:51

Thank you all for your help with this. I now know exactly who the John Crook on the board was and what he did in the war. Presumably he was promoted to Lieutenant from Petty Officer Mechanic after he returned home in 1918.

His father, a brother of my great grandmother, was a cheese maker who won several Gold Medals for his Lancashire cheese and advocated the use of scientific methods rather than just "touch" to produce the best cheese.There is a rather splendid memorial to him, erected by his family, inside the Inskip Baptist Chapel.

Thank you all once again.