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Whats going on here? wierd marriege cert

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Donna

Donna Report 1 Apr 2009 17:25

This family tree is leading me a merry dance!!
I have Henry Severy GAGE B 1851 who had a son in 1882 also called Henry Severy GAGE. He married maud Beatrice Skelton in 1915 and had a son again called Henry Severy Gage b 1916.
Everything seemed fine up to here. Then Henry b 1882 had a sister Emily Rhoda GAGE B 1877 Who married Albert Edward Pickin in 1900. He died 1915. Emily lived with but never married Albert's older brither William Henry Pickin until he died in 1951.
A family member found a marriage cert from 1919 for William Henry Pickin who didn't marry Emily ,but Maud Beatrice Skelton.She was Emily's sister in law.
On the cert there seems to be something weird. MAUD says her father is Henry Severy GAGE A tie cutter -deceased. This is the 1851 fellow and he died 1893. Why did she put her father in law down as father and instead of using her maiden name of Skelton she uses GAGE. The witnesses at wedding were M. Skelton, F.Skelton and H.S. Gage.
Please can someone enlighten me to what is going on. I realise it is confusing and a lot for me to take in and I'm familiar with the family.

Thankyou

+*+blossom In Essex+*+

+*+blossom In Essex+*+ Report 1 Apr 2009 17:42

I can't find any marriage record on freebmd for William Henry Pickin.

+*+blossom In Essex+*+

+*+blossom In Essex+*+ Report 1 Apr 2009 17:48

????????????? Suddenly realised I was looking previously for a Pickin - Skelton marriage!

Marriages Mar 1919 (>99%)
Gage Maud B Pickin W. Ham 4a 476 Scan available - click to view >>>>>>>>
Pettengale William Straughan W. Ham 4a 476 Scan available - click to view
Pickin William H Gage W Ham 4a 476 Scan available - click to view >>>>>>>>>>
Straughan Helen E Pettengale W. Ham 4a 476 Scan available - click to view

+*+blossom In Essex+*+

+*+blossom In Essex+*+ Report 1 Apr 2009 18:23

This is Maud on the 1901 with mother, also Maud. There is no father but Maud is down as married:


1901 England Census
about Maud Skelton
Name: Maud Skelton
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Maud
Gender: Female
Where born: Shoreditch, London, England

Civil Parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: St Leonard Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub registration district: Shoreditch South
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 38
Household Members:
Name Age
Maud Skelton 33
Maud Skelton 8
Harry Skelton 6
John Skelton 5
Frederick Skelton 2
Emily Skelton 1
Alice Pollington 16

View
Original
Record

View original image

+*+blossom In Essex+*+

+*+blossom In Essex+*+ Report 1 Apr 2009 18:27

Possible for Maud's parents marriage:

Marriages Jun 1892 (>99%)
PAGET John Daniel Shoreditch 1c 247 Scan available - click to view
Skelton Harry George Shoreditch 1c 247 Scan available - click to view
SKELTON Henry George Shoreditch 1c 247 Scan available - click to view
SKIDMORE Lavinia Jane Shoreditch 1c 247 Scan available - click to view
Stewart Maud Shoreditch 1c 247 Scan available - click to view

Donna

Donna Report 1 Apr 2009 19:36

I tried and failed to find Maud's parents marriage so thankyou for that.

I have a copy of the marriage cert from 1919 between William Pickin and Maud. I have just realised that someone obtained this copy in 1950 -31 years after marriage,but whu??.
The age of Maud on this marriage is 41yrs, so the Maud Beatrice born 1892 would be to young. If her first husband Henry Severy Gage had died between them marrying in 1915 and her marrying again in 1919 I can't find his death. Theres no birth registered for a Maud Beatrice Gage either so ruled out that possibilty.
Something fishy is going on and I don't know where to go next for info and clues.

Whats going on with these 3 families?

Thankyou to all who tried to help.
Much appreciated

Libby22

Libby22 Report 1 Apr 2009 20:55

To confuse matters more, I found this marriage!

Marriages Jun 1896

Floersheim Cecil Lewis F St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 847
Floersheim Cecil Louis F St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 847
Skelton Maud Beatrice S St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 847
Southet Henry St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 847
Southey Henry St Geo H Sq 1a 847
Wade Alice Charlotte St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 847

Donna

Donna Report 1 Apr 2009 21:21

Well thats thrown a spanner in the works. I was under the impression Maud Beatrice Skelton wasn't a come name,but certainly a few have cropped up.

Still don't know who my Maud Beatrice Skelton is and why was she kept a secret from family members. Nobody knew about her.....

Thanks for taking a look Libby9

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 1 Apr 2009 22:16

Hi Donna, I have copied and pasted most of this into a Word document on my hard drive to try to get my head round it. So far it is not working, but give me time! I will delete it when I have finished.

Just a thought, which might be off the wall. A family member has "found" a marriage cert - how sure are you that this is the right one? I ask because amongst my mother-in-law's papers after she died was a birth certificate for her grandmother Margaret Ann Whittaker, showing her parents as John and Sarah. I based a lot of my research on this until after a couple of years I decided that these parents were not reliable. I had to spend money, of course, in getting wrong certificates which "proved" (if there is such a thing) that the person for whom she had the birth certificate was the wrong person. I then decided that Margaret Ann Whittaker had been illegitimate, and another Genes member helped me out on the logic. A further search among mother-in-law's papers revealed a christening certificate with no father named. Another Genes member went off to her local record office to confirm it - and a third Genes member located her correct birth.

As with you, the "wrong" birth certificate had been applied for when the woman was in her 50s. I imagined it was out of curiosity, but it your case it could be to do with a passport application or similar, as your mystery is a few years later than mine. I THEN learnt that Margaret Ann Whittaker (by then a widow with a new surname) had adopted a child - so maybe her records were needed by the adoption people.

Sorry for all the waffle, but just to say that things ain't always what they seem.

Good luck.

Maggie

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 2 Apr 2009 00:36

Donna

I was hoping someone else would have found something to help you, but it seems not yet. I have looked through everything I can think of. All I have found is a Henry S Gage born 1915 and died 1915. I toyed with the idea that William Henry Pickin's wife in 1919 was actually Maud's mother, who lied about her age by 10 years, but she actually died in Mar Q 1919, possibly. After all, Henry was 10 years older than the Maud he married in 1915, so he could have fancied the mother too!

Like you, no death for him between those dates, I have been through Find My Past which is generally a bit more complete. I tried deaths of the surname Severy too, but there weren't any.

Basically, the problem is who is Maud Beatrice Gage who was 41 when she married William Henry Pickin in March Q 1919? She does not seem to be the woman who married Henry Severy Gage - have you checked the age of him on the marriage cert too? And what was the age of William Henry Pickin in 1919? And peoples' occupations on the various certificates?

This can't be unproven, it is less that 100 years ago. So let's not give up. We have a wrong lead somewhere. Your family do not remember Maud Beatrice Skelton or Gage, so chances are we have it wrong.

Perhaps you need to ignore this rogue marriage certificate and pretend you have never seen it.

Maggie

Am I right that there is no death for Maud Beatrice Pickin (nee Gage or Skelton)? Not looked for that.

What a problem!

Maggie

Libby22

Libby22 Report 2 Apr 2009 01:05

A people search on the 1911, brings up a Maude Gage born 1880 living Lambeth London.

Libby22

Libby22 Report 2 Apr 2009 01:23

Also on the 1911 census.............

Henry LEVEY Gage born 1883 living West Ham. Could LEVEY be a mistranscription for SEVERY?

Donna

Donna Report 2 Apr 2009 07:31

I have done 1911 census search and it is Henry Severy not Levey. He is living in Forest gate with his mother Susan and brothers William and Percy and sisters Mary and Winifred. The rest have left home and married and his father died 1893. All fits in so far. Henry is now a bus driver aged 28. His son Henry Severy GAGE (3rd) WAS BORN 1916 The year after his marriage to Maud Beatrice Skelton.I have fouind that he died in 1992 .

This is driving me up the wall!!!

This is the marriage for 4 yrs later in 1919 12th march.
William Henry Pickin age 42 Bachelor- Cellarman wines and spirits- living at 109 Field rd Forest Gate- Father William Pickin deceased-master bootmaker.
Maud Beatrice Gage age 41 Spinster- 109 Field rd Forest gate. Father Henry Severy Gage deceased-Tie Cutter. This is Henry born 1851-1893.

Witnesses -M Skelton- F Skelton- H S Gage.

Not sure of the year ,but William Henry Pickin had a relationship until he died in 1951 with Emily Rhoda Pickin nee GAGE. She was married to his brother who died in 1915. Emily was Henry Severy Gage b 1882 sister.


The family don't recall MAUD because the eldest I have is Ernest born in 1936. He is Emily's grandson and lived with the family. William brought up Ernest mother who was born in 1914 so William must have been with Emily quite a while. They are buried together as husband and wife ,but never actually married.
Maud is a real Problem!!!
Where did Maud disappear to?

Donna

Donna Report 2 Apr 2009 07:45

I have just checked out 1911 census for any other Maud Gage and theres a few but noone connected to mine. I can only think that MAUD PUT HER FIRST MARRIAGE NAME ON CERT AND FOR SOME REASON PUT FATHER IN LAWS NAME.
I think she was Maud Beatrice Skelton b 1878 married Henry Severy Gage in 1915 and became Maud Gage.Then married in 1919 and became Maud Beatrice Pickin. Where did she then go. Only person who will have the real answer is her son Henry who died 1992.
How do I get info from him? I suppose I could purchase his death cert!!!

Victoria

Victoria Report 2 Apr 2009 14:23


I too am confused!!

However, I have looked up Maud Beatrice Floersheim and find that in 1901 she is 28 and married to Cecil, 30, Barrister at law living at 16 Kensington Court Mansions.

Living with them are her brother, Stanley S Skelton, 32 a general merchant born [as was Maud] at Gypsy Hill, London and her sister Annette I Skelton, 29 who was [interestingly since she is the middle sibling] born in Chester, Cheshire.

There are no children.

I am not sure if this is enlightening or confusing!

Victoria

Donna

Donna Report 2 Apr 2009 14:48

Its getting worse this problem. Just looked throught the phone books and found possible match for Cecil and later Mrs C Floersheim. I don't think she is my Maud, but then againI could be wrong.
I have looked for people doing research on her son Henry Severy Gage b 1916-1992 ,but found nothing yet!!

Thankyou to everyone who helped me with this and who continue to. Sometimes things are looking you straight in the face and you just can't see them. Other peoples thoughts are all welcome.

Donna

Victoria

Victoria Report 3 Apr 2009 13:18



You are probably right - it was just the presence of Maud Beatrice's brother and sister - both unmarried and called Skelton that I thought was significant.

Anyway, if this gets bumped up, perhaps someone else will come up with the answer!!

Victoria

Donna

Donna Report 3 Apr 2009 17:54

n

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 3 Apr 2009 20:56

Hi Donna

I've spent hours and hours on this, no problem, I enjoy a puzzle, and am an experienced researcher, but sad to say I am no wiser that when I started.
Hope you solve it all soon.

Maggie

Sandra

Sandra Report 3 Apr 2009 21:05

Hi Donna,

one thing comes to mind as have some experince with my own family.............Emily was Williams sister in law and I believe it was illegal to marry your brothers wife............so maybe she used a false name one she knew!

sandie