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Trying to confirm a Death

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

KiwiJoy

KiwiJoy Report 30 Nov 2010 06:20

I'm hoping someone can help me please to confirm a death. I think I have finally found the Death of my Gt.Grandmother, Bridget Vevers, (nee Tarpey), in Sept. 1901. The only thing is the name she is under is "Veness". (I've tried just about every other connotation). The other puzzle for me is the District, shown as St. Olave and I haven't the faintest idea where that is. (Being in New Zealand doesn't help!) She was born in Carlisle and lived in Newcastle upon Tyne. The last Census she was on as Vevers was 1881.
Her husband William remarried in 1898 and some of you may remember trying to help me find out about his Daughter Mary Vevers??

I'd be really grateful if someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks. Joy :-)

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 30 Nov 2010 06:52

This is the one you found I presume?

Thta means that she died soemtme between Jul and September, as the deaths on freebmd are given i quarters.

Deaths Sep 1901 (>99%)

Veness Bridget 51 St. Olave 1d 136


This is the same record from ancestry, just presented in a different way.

From this you can see that St Olave is in London

Name: Bridget Veness
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 51
District: St Olave Southwark (1837-1901)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 136 (click to see others on page)


I looked on both ancestry and freebmd at the actual image of the page, and it is definitely Veness ..... of coruse this is not to say thta it was not copied down srongly from the nformation send gfrom the local registery office to GRO



This could be that same Bridget Veness in 1891

1891 Census

Name: Bridget Veness
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William Veness
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey

William Veness 41
Bridget Veness 41
Helen I Veness 11
Elizabeth N Veness 8
William P Veness 6
Ann M Veness 9 Months


and in 1901

Name: Bridget Veness
Age: 37 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< image says she is 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1864 <<<< therefore year is 1850
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William Veness
Gender: Female
Where born: Rotherhithe

Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Bermondsey

William Veness 51
Bridget Veness 37
Ellen Veness 20
Elizabeth Veness 18
William Veness 16
Ann Veness 10
Agness Veness 8
Annie Sells 18




sylvia

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 30 Nov 2010 06:53

for ref


Name: Bridget Veness
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William Veness
Gender: Female
Where born: Rotherhithe
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 8 Cadbury Rd

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 30 Nov 2010 06:54

1901 England Census about Bridget Veness
Name: Bridget Veness
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William Veness
Gender: Female
Where born: Rotherhithe
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members:
Name Age
William Veness 51
Bridget Veness 37
Ellen Veness 20
Elizabeth Veness 18
William Veness 16
Ann Veness 10
Agness Veness 8
Annie Sells 18

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 30 Nov 2010 06:59

and finally, here she is in 1881


1881 Census

Name: Bridget Veness
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William Veness
Gender: Female
Where born: Rotherhithe

Civil Parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 8 Cadbury Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey

William Veness 31
Bridget Veness 31
Ellen J. Veness 1
Ellen O. Halloran 62 Mother 99%)

O'HALLORAN Bridget St. Olave 1d 412
VENESS William St. Olave 1d 412





so I am afraid that Bridget Veness is not your Bridget Vevers






Have you considered that the marriage just broke up, they separated, and then William could have married bigamously


No-one would know, you did not then have to produce proof of death of previous spouse .......... and divorce was extremely expensive and rarely attainable for the ordinary person.




sylvia

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 30 Nov 2010 07:57

William Vevers 1871 Carlisle Cumbria, Cumberland
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Bridget Tarpey
Name: Bridget Tarpey
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Carlisle
County: Cumbria, Cumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 771 (click to see others on page

KiwiJoy

KiwiJoy Report 30 Nov 2010 11:42

Thank you all so very much for putting me right, at least now I know I don't have to send for a Cert. for her...

I know Bridget must have died before the 1891 Census as she is not on it, plus she would have died with what they would call nowadays a Motor Neurone Disease. My Grandmother told my Mother that Bridget died of it, and apparently the females of the family that die of it only last for about 4 > 5 yrs after the age of 48.

I can't find her Death anywhere and it's a complete mystery to me, that's why I've been trying different variations of her name. I don't honestly know where to go now?

Well it's 20 to1 in the morning here, well past my bed time. I'm very grateful for the all the help. Thank you.

Joy :-)

Janet

Janet Report 30 Nov 2010 13:02

Whilst I know you are looking for the death of Bridget, could you confirm who William Vevers married in 1898 ?. -Jle

 Lindsey*

Lindsey* Report 30 Nov 2010 13:17

from her old thread

James Toward Vevers and Mary Ethel Lee are my Grandparents

Thelma

Thelma Report 30 Nov 2010 13:33

Joy
You say Bridget is not on the 1891 census.
Does that mean that you have the rest of the family?

crg

crg Report 30 Nov 2010 13:59

i think i have found the family in 1891 under the name nevies

samuel on the cencus is toward if you look at the original wife sarah died 1892 and richard 1893.

i cannot find the birth of bridget and sisters ann catherine and elizabeth.

could sarah be bridget

i found a entry in 1851 under kirpin could be the family.

Janet

Janet Report 30 Nov 2010 14:13

Looking at the 1911 census there appears to be two possible William Vevers. One, who is a bricklayer, has a daughter called Mary which may be the one mentioned in the opening request. If this is the same one then her mother is Marget and she has been married 15 years, which would not fit in with the marriage of 1898. Also she came from Scotland. Could it be if this were the same one that a death of Bridget and the second marriage of William Vevers took place in Scotland......I know my imagination is working overtime- Jle

crg

crg Report 30 Nov 2010 14:22

william married margaret little in 1896 in newcastle she was from scotland they are on the 1901 cencus with williams son james toward in newcastle.

KiwiJoy

KiwiJoy Report 30 Nov 2010 19:48

My goodness, you have all been very busy whilst I have been asleep, thank you so very much...

William Vevers did remarry in 1898 to Margaret Little from Scotland.
They had a daughter Mary born around 1901 - she's another one of the family that has "disappeared" on me between the 1901 and the 1911 Census!

James Toward Vevers, my Grandfather, was born in 1881, 4th Qtr,
I have searched for Bridgets Death from 1881 right up to 1911 without success.

I thought Bridget Veness could have been my Gt. Grandmother as my Bridget's father, Smith Tarpey also died of MND and I found him in Gateshead, miles away from Carlisle where he lived in a "Lunatic Asylum" which I think was also classed as a hospital in those days?

The marriage between William and Margaret took place in Newcastle. Margaret had been working in Northumberland for a while before they were married and obviously William had been living in Newcastle for a good while too.

The death of Bridget in 1879 is not my Bridget, it's too early.

I have been looking for Bridget Vevers death other than in Ncle., but nothing has "Clicked" yet.

Thank you all ever so much for your help, I truly appreciate it. Now I must go and have my breakfast, or at least a cup of tea before I do anything else.

crg

crg Report 30 Nov 2010 20:56

hi joy

The family i found in 1851 in carlisle under the name kirpin would be the correct family as the males name was smith from ireland.

I also rechecked marriages on freebmd.a william james vevers married in carlisle 1898 to either jane little or annie harrington. a william vevrs married newcastle 1896
to either margaret little or elizabeth cook i think the correct one is the 1896 marriage not 1898.

let me know what you think.

KiwiJoy

KiwiJoy Report 30 Nov 2010 21:40

Hi Caroline,

You are correct. I've just looked at their Marriage Cert and they were married 15th Aug. 1896, in the Parish Church of St. Silas(?) in Byker, they would have had to have lived in the area, for at least the reading of the Banns, to have been married in a church? William has given his address as 57 Church Street and Margaret as 6 Stephen Street. The witnesses Names don't ring a bell either.

I was wondering if they did the same thing as i did when I got married? I put my Girlfriends address down as my Home address just so i could get married in the same church as most of my Ancestors were married in.
Maybe they did the same whilst living in Benwell? Not knowing if Bridget was dead or not?

Unfortunately that doesn't help me with finding either Bridget Vevers Death or daughter Mary, born to Margaret Vevers!

Thanks again Caroline.

Joy :-)

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 30 Nov 2010 21:58

Joy

they could well have done

But in the UK it was often a way to reduce the cost of a wedding ................ Banns had to be called for 3 weeks preceding the marriage in the parish church of each person, I think that is still the case. AND one had to pay for the Banns to be called.

When you look at England and Wales marriage certificates, it is amazing how many brides and grooms lived at the same address.

In most cases, they weren't already living together, just that it was cheaper if you had the Banns called in only one church!


I got married at my OH's church, but also had the Banns called at the church in the Parish I lived in .............. that meant I didn't have to find an address in his parish.

We chose his church not only it was his parish church, but also because it was a lovely little church way out in the country, parts of it dated back to the Normans. It has a lych gate and is surrounded by yew trees. I hadn't been to my parish church for many years, and really disliked the vicar!



sylvia


KiwiJoy

KiwiJoy Report 30 Nov 2010 22:25

I was wondering... Would there be any specific reason as to why a person can't be found under the normal "Deaths"? Such as a Suicide or Murder. You can tell I'm getting desperate now... The way things are going, my death will be registered before I ever find Bridget Vevers!

Joy :-)

crg

crg Report 1 Dec 2010 07:05

hi joy

who was sarah in the 1891 cencus and died 1892 a second wife.

Barbara

Barbara Report 1 Dec 2010 09:23

Perhaps the person registering did not know her name and she was registered as unknown?