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naturalization

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 May 2013 12:43

My great grandfather was from Russia (grandma was illegitimate but we found his name from an affiliation order in 1900) .he is on 1891 and 1901 census but can't find him after that .Just wonder if he got naturalized might he also have changed his name .?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 May 2013 12:49

He might have done, or he might just have been mistranscribed.

If I understand correctly,he wouldn't necessarily have had to be naturalised to anglicise his name.

Do you want to give details for someone to see if they can find anything?

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 May 2013 13:00

he'd already angliscised his first name to George his middle name was jacob. I was hesitant about giving his name as i already have a thread on find ancesters and don't want to fall into the trap of asking about the same person .

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 May 2013 13:05

Very wise Alisoun! Can you give a link to the thread in that case?

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 May 2013 13:06

I just wondered if it would be worth following that line of enquiry apparently people didn't bother to get naturalised at that time unless they had a good reason . I wonder if a 14 year order of 4shillings a week child maintenance would be motivation for a draper to change his name and disappear.can't find a death for him before 1911.

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 12 May 2013 13:34

how about this one Alisoun - he seems to have moved around and in 1901 was a draper 'on own account' & traveller could be 'commercial traveller'. Different birth year I know but he was born in Russia

Name: Geo J Fellman
Age in 1911: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Lodger
Gender: Male
Civil parish: Pontypridd
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 54 Parade Pontypridd Glamorganshire
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Traveller Collector
Registration district: Pontypridd
Registration District Number: 589
Sub-registration district: Eglwysilan
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 38
Piece: 32222
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Jones 63
Elizabeth Jones 58
Taliesin Taylor 22
Ivor Thomas 12
Arthur Parsons 20
Geo J Fellman 35 born Jaeslestadt Kurland, Russian - (image says Jacobstadt)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 12 May 2013 13:41

Just putting a link to Alisoun's thread in case anyone wants to pop across
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1300276

Flip

Flip Report 12 May 2013 14:43

If Ann's census find is a possibility, he came from modern day Latvia, Kurland (or Courland) is an area, and I think the image is Jacobstadt but it has been badly transcribed.

Is this a possibility for his death - can't see another George Fellman around??

George Fellman
Birth Date: abt 1872
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1924
Age at Death: 52
Registration district: Bridgend
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 1127

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 May 2013 22:15

Thank you . That is a possibility especially as he's listed as Geo J .on the 1911 census tho he's 5 years too young . the birth date would be closer on Flip's George Fellman's death but this could be 2 different people .
My mother seems to remember sseing birthplace Moscow somewhere but will have to check on her copy of 1911 census or trades directory record That wouldn't necessarily rule out Latvia as transcribers might just put "Moscow" as an alternative word for Russia.

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 12 May 2013 23:05

definitely says nationality Russian in 1911

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 12 May 2013 23:18

Thanks Ann .I have seen that census and didn't remember seeing "Moscow" .As my mother is quite adamant she will check the Trades directory information about him .

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 13 May 2013 08:48

sorry Ann , I haven't seen that 1911 census it's the 1901 census my mother showed me but I only remember it as Russia she's sure it was "Moscow" .I'll phone her after work to see where the Moscow reference came from .meanwhile I've been looking up about Kurland (Courland ) and it's Jewish history .

Flip

Flip Report 13 May 2013 09:25

It must be from something other than the census - 1901 states Russia (Foreign Subject) and 1891 just states Russia.

Maybe from the court papers?

Alemap

Alemap Report 13 May 2013 10:58

Hi, read most of the info on here and the other thread.

Since George Jacob was not British he would have had to register as an alien in 1914, unless he applied for naturalization. Either way if you contact Glamorgan Archives they should be able to tell you if the records are available and where they are.

Alisoun

Alisoun Report 13 May 2013 12:50

Thank you Pam would it automatically be Glamorgan archives?
If he was a travelling salesman I don't know what county he would be based in in 1914 . But if he was there In 1911 and that's where he died it's a good place to start.

Flip it wasn't in the court order and we didn't see a transcript of the procedures and there is no evidence of a newspaper report . Mum probably got "Moscow" from the other Fellman she researched so "Russia" is all we can be sure of .

Flip

Flip Report 13 May 2013 13:25

Hi Alisoun

You & your mum have obviously been at this some time, if (and *if* is the operative word) the 1911 census is correct, at least it gives you a lead on his place of birth. I'm pretty sure it says Jacobstadt, it definitly says Kurland. Check out this site, you have to register, but I think it's free to search:

http://www.lvva-raduraksti.lv/en/search.html

The 1891 census has given you his possible mother, or at least a relative of his. If you do search try Feldman as well, also try substituting the F with a V as the German V sounds like our F.

If you haven't got access to the 1911 image let me know and I'll PM it to you.

Alemap

Alemap Report 13 May 2013 14:09

Hi Alisoun,
I was going on the hope that the 1911 census was the correct one.
Glamorgan Archives should be able to tell you if the alien registrations still exist.

Another site that might be able to help is

http://www.jewishgen.org

You have to register, but it is free.

I have not found George or his mother, but there are contact addresses for the different communities.

Flip

Flip Report 13 May 2013 15:05

How do we know there is Jewish ancestry here please, not all European immigrants were Jewish, have I missed something?

Alemap

Alemap Report 13 May 2013 16:10

I agree, not all European immigrants were Jewish. The reason I said try the Jewish website is.
1. George and Mendal arrived between 1881 and 1891. The Jewish community in Europe were subjected to the pogroms at this time and many escaped to Britain.
2. On 1891 census they are in Cheetham close to the Jewish community.
3. The names Jacob and Mendel suggest they are possibly Jewish.

For these reasons I suggested Alisoun try the Jewish website.
I am not saying George Jacob and Mandal were Jewish, just that it is a possibility.

The alien registration was for anyone not born in Great Britain and Ireland.
.

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 13 May 2013 16:17

I agree the 1911 image says Jacobstadt so I have amended my post above where I posted the 1911 details