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Trying to find children of James Deadman who married Emily Fisher in 1916 in Basingstoke Hampshire. Any help appreciated.

They apparently did not have children -- I searched the complete post-1916 index at Ancestry.

Unless Emily was previously married and Fisher was not her birth surname, so you would have to search for births by whatever her birth surname was.

You would need the marriage certificate to know that, probably. Then if that was the case, search at FreeBMD for

births
surname Deadman
mother's surname ___

and if there were any births, most would likely be transcribed there by now.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk - click the red Search

Could this be relevant?

Name: DEADMAN, JAMES
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: ALIAS
Date of Death: 03/05/1917
Service No: SR/1207
Additional information: See "WINTER," the true family name.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

Name: WINTER, JAMES
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Royal Sussex Regiment
Unit Text: "A" Coy. 7th Bn.
Age: 26
Date of Death: 03/05/1917
Service No: SR/1207
Additional information: (Served as DEADMAN). Son of the late Mrs. C. Winter; husband of Elsie Victoria Carey (formerly Winter), of 4, East St., Hastings.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 6.
Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL


That marriage:

Marriages Mar 1912
Johnson Elsie V Winter Hastings 2b 19
Winter James Johnson Hastings 2b 19

and then:

Marriages Jun 1918
Casey James Winter Hastings 2b 75
Winter Elsie V Casey Hastings 2b 75
(i.e. not Carey)


We have certainly seen a couple of bigamous marriages on the boards lately!

Lorraine, on a board search, I just found this post by you several months ago (in a thread about different Deadmans):

I have Grace Deadman (1908) Laura Deadman (1909) Norman Deadman (1912) James Deadman (1913) all born in Basingstoke
There parents were James (c1878) and Laura Deadman nee Marshall
Laura Died in 1915 and I believe James remarried but don't know who
also not sure where James was born
his father was William Deadman
Hope this helps if any one has info on this family please let me know.

(I have broken it up into readable pieces as it was all one sentence in the original.)

Shall we assume that this is the James Deadman you are asking about? -- born c1878, previously married to Laura Marshall? And you have now determined that he then married Emily Fisher?

That info would have been useful to start with.

Hi All,

Thank you for all your help!

Sorry, but Yes James Deadman was Married to Laura Marshall she died in 1915 James then married Emily Fisher so this may not have been her first marriage either. Suppose the only way to find out for sure would be to get the marriage cert!

Interesting about the James Deadman/Winter will have to look into this further as I can find no birth record for james Deadman.

Aha - so there could be intrigue yet!

Your James's first marriage preceded the James Winter marriage, though:

Marriages Dec 1907
DEADMAN James Basingstoke 2c 492
MARSHALL Laura Basingstoke 2c 492

But no birth for him? Unfortunately, no middle name/initial.

And Deadman/Winter was 26 when he died in 1917, so born c1890, a little young to be your James ...

Marriage certifiate time!

Your James in 1911, in case you don't have his dob:

DEADMAN JAMES 1878 33 Basingstoke Hampshire
DEADMAN LAURA 1880 31 Basingstoke Hampshire
DEADMAN GRACE 1909 2 Basingstoke Hampshire
DEADMAN WINIFRED 1910 1 Basingstoke Hampshire

If you buy credits, you can see his place of birth details.


http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

searched first for James Deadman living with Laura Deadman, and then searched for all Deadmans in Basingstoke living with Laura Deadman.

Searching 1876-1880 at FreeBMD, there's James Alfred in Rochford in 1879, and this one:

Births Dec 1877
DEADMAN James Henry G Steyning 2b 285

who would match a census dob of 1878.


And the 1911 has:

DEADMAN JAMES 1878 33 Hackney London
DEADMAN JAMES 1881 30 Edmonton Middlesex
DEADMAN JAMES ALFRED 1880 31 Rochford Essex

The Edmonton one is:

Births Mar 1881
DEADMAN James Samuel Edmonton 3a 342

The Rochford one is:

Births Sep 1879
Deadman James Alfred Rochford 4a 325

And the one in Hackney is also a match for the James Henry G Deadman born in 1877.

Huh. A spare James Deadman in the 1911.

There are also these two births:

Births Mar 1875
Deadman James Bromley 2a 353

Births Jun 1875
Deadman James Robert W B Abingdon 2c 300

with no good matches in 1911.

The Bromley James is the only one without middle names. I wonder whether he's your best bet?

Well, this is surely him in 1901 -- do you have all this?


Name: James Deadman
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Boarder
Where born: Basingstoke, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Church Oakley
County/Island: Hampshire
Registration district: Basingstoke

Ann Moore 75
Mary Moore 67
James Deadman 23
Hannah Goddard 54

1891?

Name: James Deadman
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Mattingley, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Ashe
Registration district: Whitchurch

George H Selwood 33
Emma Selwood 36
Alfred H Selwood 10
Edith M Selwood 8
Lillian B Selwood 2
James Deadman 17


And 1881, he's a mystery. Although there's a James 1847, visitor, in Basingstoke, who would be a good candidate for being his father.

In 1881 there are some Deadmans born/living in Mattingley with their remarried mother:

Felix Mullins 33
Emma Mullins 36
Mary Jane Deadman 9
Jane Deadman 7
Fredick Felix Mullins 3
Anne Henrietta Mullins 1

Registration district: Hartley Wintney

I checked Jane -- definitely says Jane, daughter (step).


In 1871 in Mattingley:

William Dedman 34
Emma Dedman 26
Elizabeth Neville 7
William Dedman 2
Fanny Dedman 9 months


No birth as Dedman either, though.

So I missed this by a year before, it seems.

Births Sep 1874
DEADMAN James Hartley Wintney 2c 165


That be your James, I do believe!

I wonder whether Jane in 1881 was really James.

No Jane Deadman was born in Hartley Wintney reg dist 1870-1880.

In the 1881 census, searching for people any name born 1873-1877 in Mattingley, there's no one who looks like James.

Hi Evie

Thanks for all the info, Yes the children you found for James and Laura are my gt aunts and uncles after these came my Grandfather James Deadman born jul 1913 then there was Jack born and died 1st qtr 1915 same time as Laura so assume she died in childbirth.

Unfortunately no one knows what happened to Laura and Grace thou I have recently been given a picture of Grace as a young lady.

Norman and James were placed in Dr Barnado homes and both ended up in Wales i have been in touch with the gt grandaughter of Norman but her family know even less than mine.

It is extremely frustrating James and Laura's marriage cert is not helpful as the names of the witness's are hard to make out. I think Laura lied about her father as her mother was unmarried . Which makes me wonder if James lied about his father who is named as william deadman Grenadier guard deceased.

Hi Evie
checking the 1911 census James listed as being born in Aldershot Hants.

Felix Mullins, stepfather in the 1881 household, is a farm labourer.
William Dedman in the 1871 household is a farm labourer.

William could have been ex-Grenadier Guard. Or James could have been telling tales.

James Deadman in 1901 is a cowman (ag cattle).

He could well have been in the military in 1916 -- or wait, you haven't said what occupation he gave (on marriage cert and/or children's birth certs).

Aldershot and Mattingley are about 10 miles apart.

Nothing too far off there!

So it's children of James and Emily Fisher you're looking for anyway - ?

You have the Deadman-Marshall marriage cert, and it looks like you'll have to get the Deadman-Fisher marriage cert to figure out who Emiliy was, and make sure Fisher was her name.

I would also get the birth cert for the James born in Hartley Wintney 1874 and see what it has to say, if you're wanting to track down who your James was.

Could you maybe give all the info you have? Like - Laura Marshall may have lied about her father, but what did she say about him? James's stated occupation on certificates? Ages on marriage cert?

Did Laura lie about her age too? (What was her reported age on the marriage cert?)

1901

Name: Laura Marshall
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Farnham, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Aldershot

Arthur Hollett 29 - house servant
Elenor A Hollett 26 - retailer of beer
Laura Marshall 12 (I read it as 13)


Marriages Jun 1897
Harrington Eleanor Ann Farnham 2a 216
Hollett Arthur Farnham 2a 216


Hollett household in 1891 in Farnham, Surrey:

John Hollett 63
Elizabeth Hollett 50
Arthur Hollett 19
Thomas Hollett 17
Henry Hollett 18
Allen F Hollett 13
Samuel Hollett 11
Herbert R Hollett 7

No Laura.

Harrington household in 1891 in Farnham:

Henry Marshall 28
Harriett Marshall 34
Eleanor Harrington 16
Blanche Harrington 14
Winifred Harrington 12
Frank Harrington 10
Mark Harrington 7
> Laura Marshall 4
Ruth Marshall 2
Edith K Marshall 5/12

Your Laura?


Births Sep 1887
MARSHALL Laura Farnham 2a 118

Hi evie,

Thanks for all your kind help!

This is what I know of Laura Marshall

Died 1st Qtr 1915 poss due to childbirth? found on 1891 census age 14 Linton Union workhouse.

On the 1911 census her birthplace is listed as Bromyard Herefordshire.
A kind lady from this site went to the record office and found the following information:

Laura was admitted to the workhouse Sept 1885 listed as b 1877 with her mother Alice Marshall b 1855. Both were listed as coming from the parish of Bishop's Frome to the south of Bromyard. Sadly it doesn't mean they were born there, but were living there at the time they were admitted.

I couldn't see a death for Alice but in 1888 in a reclassification of people in the workhouse Laura is listed as an orphan. On 25 Feb 1890 at age 13 Laura was discharged to the Worcester Opthalmic Hospital (Eyes) and readmitted to the workhouse on 11 March that year.

Laura left the workhouse on 3rd April 1895 to go into service with a Mrs Hughes at Leigh Malvern but she was readmitted to the workhouse on 2 May that year and her occupation was listed as a servant.

Sadly I couldn't find her final discharge - I searched until 1898 but must have missed it

I also checked the birth's and marriages for both Laura and Alice in the Bishop's Frome parish but there was no sign of any Marshall's

So Laura was in Staffordshire in 1901:


Name: Laura Marshall
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Servant
Where born: Bromyard, Herefordshire, England

Civil Parish: Handsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Staffordshire

George Hughes 26
Maud Hughes 26
Laura Marshall 24


For what that might be worth. ;)


A person possibly of interest in 1881:
(That's what the name looks like on the image)

Name: Alice Duraham
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Inmate
Where born: Bishops Froome, Hereford, England

Civil Parish: Bromyard
County/Island: Herefordshire

Street address: "Union Workhouse" Bromyard
Occupation: Farm Laborer

Registration district: Bromyard
Sub registration district: Brockhampton
ED, institution, or vessel: Bromyard Union Workhouse


Births Mar 1859
DURHAM Alice Bromyard 6a 498

Same Alice in 1871 - details seem to match with your Laura:

Name: Alice Durham
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Pauper
Where born: Bishops Frome, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Linton
County/Island: Herefordshire

and possible relations in the list:

Name: Emma Durham
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Pauper
Where born: Bishops Frome, Herefordshire, England

Name: William Durham
Age: 3 months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Pauper
Where born: Linton, Herefordshire, England


William is also with Alice in the 1881:

Name: William Duraham
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Inmate
Where born: Linton, Hereford, England


The household in 1861 in Bishops Frome:

James Durham 40
Jane Durham 40
Caroline Durham 22
Mary Durham 17
Leah Durham 15
Eliza Durham 12
George Durham 10
Elizabeth Durham 7
Emma Durham 4
Allice Durham 2


Deaths Mar 1884
Durham Alice 25 Bromyard 6a 365


All the facts fit, but still no sign of Laura being born. A Laura Elizabeth Durham in Pancras in 1876 is all.