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Lucy
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15 Jul 2010 16:04 |
I do not know what there surnames would be but i know that ruby married john forder and then divorced and married Ted. They are from forest hill in south london,.
I am not sure if teds surname was Vass or her mothers name was Vass so it would be her madien name
Rumor in our family is the mother went to switzerland and married into nobilty. She would have been born around 1880-1900s
Any help would be greatful
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Jonesey
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15 Jul 2010 16:07 |
Marriages Dec 1939 (64%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forder John J Gordon Camberwell 1d 2420 Gordon Ruby G Forder Camberwell 1d 2420
Possibility:
Births Dec 1914 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GORDON Ruby G Carash Lambeth 1d 745
Her 2nd marriage was in 1966 to Arthur Vass
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BatMansDaughter
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15 Jul 2010 16:08 |
Just to clarify your post;
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1939 (64%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forder John J Gordon Camberwell 1d 2420 Gordon Ruby G Forder Camberwell 1d 2420
Then marriage to ;
England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 about Ruby G Forder Name: Ruby G Forder Spouse Surname: Vass Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1966 Registration district: Lewisham Registration county (inferred): Kent Volume Number: 5d Page Number: 627 Find Spouse: Arthur vass
Dee x
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BatMansDaughter
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15 Jul 2010 16:09 |
Possible birth for Ruby;
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Dec 1914 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GORDON Ruby G Carash Lambeth 1d 745
Dee x
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BatMansDaughter
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15 Jul 2010 16:09 |
Siblings of Ruby??
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Dec 1913 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Dudley B Carash Lambeth 1d 829
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Dec 1917 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Norman C Carash Lambeth 1d 422
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BatMansDaughter
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15 Jul 2010 16:21 |
I can't see a Gordon carash marriage so you would need to order a birth cert for one of the children to confirm parentage. However I wonder if the mother had been previously married??
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Emma Georgina Carash Name: Emma Georgina Carash Year of Registration: 1906 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Lambeth County: Greater London, London, Surrey Volume: 1d Page: 455 To one of these gents;
William Henry Garner Ernest Walter Pankhurst
Dee x
EDIT>>>>>>>>>> This lady later remarried;
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1924 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GARNER Emma G Caplin Camberwell 1d 1635
Found her as a witness on her brother Cedrics marriage as Emma Georgina Caplin in 1919, so not your lady.
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Lucy
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16 Jul 2010 21:29 |
Thanks everyone for this information but i don't know what i am looking at it looks confusing. Just to clarify my post
I am looking for the mother and father of Ruby and Douglas.
I know that Ruby married John Forder.
She would have been born 1913-1922
She then re-married someone called Ted Vas.
I don't know when Ruby was born or what her madien name is.
I think if i could find her marriage certificate i could find her madian name so i would have a surname to search for.
I know Ruby had two children Ennie and Norma. Enni is my nan and was born in scotland but her birth was not regitsered or documents got lost at the end of ww2.
Any help would be welcome as i am new to this
Many Thanks
Lucy
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Jonesey
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16 Jul 2010 21:34 |
Ruby's maiden name was Gordon.
Here is Ruby's birth registration. Buy a copy of it and the names of her parents will be on it.
Births Dec 1914 (>99%) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GORDON Ruby G Carash Lambeth 1d 745
You can order the certificate online from www.gro.gov.uk It will cost you £9.25 including postage.
Just for good measure here is Ruby's child Norma's birth registration:
Name: Norma S Forder Mother's Maiden Surname: Gordon Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1948 Registration district: Hammersmith Registration county: Greater London, Middlesex Volume Number: 5c Page Number: 1189
PLUS Ruby's death registration:
Name: Ruby Georgina Vass Birth Date: 12 Aug 1914 Death Registration Month/Year: 1976 Registration district: Bromley Inferred County: Kent Volume: 11 Page: 0914
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Lucy
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17 Jul 2010 18:18 |
Hi
I need to find some information on Ruby Gordon's mother and father the information above does not add up if her mother was Emma Crasah she would have had ruby when she was like 7 so this can't be her. This lady is said to have re-married after having two children ennie and norma, but ennie is not registered only norma is. She moved to switzerland and married a count, but without her full name it is hard to check records in switzerland, any help on her name when she was born would be of such good help
Many Thanks x
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MargaretM
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29 Nov 2010 01:05 |
The marriage on Ancestry:
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about William Henry Garner Name: William Henry Garner Age: 64 Estimated birth year: abt 1842 Spouse Name: Emma Georgina Carasl Spouse Age: 38 Record Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 15 Apr 1906 Parish: St Matthew, Brixton County: Surrey Borough: Lambeth Father Name: William Garner Spouse Father Name: Joseph Sheffield He's a widower, she's a widow. Her name is signed Emma Georgina Carash,
The only problem with this is daughter Ruby's birth should show mother's maiden name as Sheffield not Caresh which was her previous married name.
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JaneyCanuck
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29 Nov 2010 01:41 |
Where'd you dig this up from, MM? ;)
Lucy just wasn't following. If you're reading again, Lucy, you need to pay attention as you read.
You keep saying that Ruby married Ted Vas. Ted is obviously a nickname. **She married Arthur Vass.** For instance.
The 1906 record about Emma Georgina Carash isn't a birth, it's a marriage -- in case Ruby's mother was previously married, that was a possibility. But she was ruled out by finding a different marriage for her. (Oops! I spoke too soon -- keep reading!)
**Ruby G Gordon** married John Forder. That marriage was posted above a couple of times.
The *only* birth of a Ruby G Gordon, to account for that marriage, was in 1914, and the mother's surname was Carash.
The *only* way you are going to find out who the mother was is to order the birth certificate for Ruby G Gordon.
People here have tried to figure out who she was, but haven't been able to. Only the birth certificate can say for sure in any event.
If you go to FreeBMD
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
and search for the surname CARASH -- all events, don't give any date or place -- there are only six records in total in 1906 and before.
The death of two young children in 1894 and 1895. Two births, in 1895 and 1897 The death of one of those children in 1897 The marriage of Emma Georgina Carash in 1906
Then there are other events starting in 1919.
This is the birth in 1895:
Births Jun 1895 Carash Ruby Dorothy Croydon 2a 241
That looks to me like it is very likely to be the mother of Ruby G Gordon, whose parents quite probably weren't married.
But **only the birth certificate** will tell you who they were.
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jax
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29 Nov 2010 01:48 |
Its in the Baker surname board thats why its been dug up I would think. Cannot see anyone called Baker though ??
jax
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JaneyCanuck
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29 Nov 2010 01:58 |
Well, interesting. Whom do we have in the 1911 census?
GARNER RUBY DOROTHY CONSTANCE 1895 age 16 born in Croydon Surrey
She is not living with anyone else named Garner. I don't pay for access to the 1911 census, but let's see what I can figure out.
She's living with:
SHEFFIELD JOSEPH 1838 73 >> this is the name of Emma Georgina Carash's father, on her 1906 marriage TYRELL WILLIAM BERTRAM 1878 33 TYRELL ESTHER LOUISA 1879 32 TYRELL GRACE ISABEL 1906 5
So it looks like the Sheffield - Garner trail is the right one after all.
Ruby Carash's mother Emma Georgina Carash married Mr Garner in 1906, and Ruby then went by the name Garner.
But she doesn't seem to have married a Mr. Gordon under the name Garner either.
So you still need Ruby Gordon's birth certificate to get the names of her parents.
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JaneyCanuck
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29 Nov 2010 01:59 |
Haha, jax. Unintended consequences. ;)
Lucky for Lucy!
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JaneyCanuck
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29 Nov 2010 02:08 |
Here is the Sheffield household in 1891 in Croydon
Joseph Sheffield 53 Jane Sheffield 50 >> Emma G Sheffield 23 James A Sheffield 14 Margaret G Sheffield 14 Herter L Sheffield 12 (Hester) Rebekah A Sheffield 6
Births Mar 1868 SHEFFIELD Emma Georgina Newington 1d 226
Wherever she got the name CARASH from, it wasn't marriage (unless it was outside England/Wales). That is the only record for the name Emma Georgina Sheffield.
This is the household in 1901 in Croydon:
Joseph Sheffield 63 Esther L Sheffield 21 (who marries and is Ester Tyrell in 1911) > Cedric Sheffield 8 - born Clapham
Cedric seems to be Emma Georgina's son, rather than brother, but I can't find his birth.
But look:
Marriages Dec 1919 Carash Cedric T J to Kilminster Camberwell 1d 1885
Births Mar 1921 Carash Cedric J mother Kilminster Lambeth 1d 778 Births Mar 1924 Carash Peter mother Kilminster Camberwell 1d 1208 Births Jun 1929 Carash Dianna R mother Kelminster Camberwell 1d 1011
Deaths Sep 1931 Carash Cedric T J age 39 Southwark 1d 27
>> There is a line of the Carash surname down from Cedric. If you search trees at this website for the surname CARASH and no other details, you will find that several of them are members of this site.
There are also people with Emma Sheffield born 1868 Newington (or Camberwell), and Cedric Sheffield born 1893 Clapham.
These are all people you could try to contact for more information about the Sheffield / Carash / Garner / Gordon etc. families, and just to meet, as you are all related somehow. ;)
And I wasn't paying attention at first to those Carash results.
I think this is Ruby Dorothy Constance Carash Garner marrying her Swiss man, who had two names:
Marriages Dec 1935 Carash Dorothy C to Hoffman Carash Dorothy C to De Becker De Becker Gustav H N to Carash Hoffmann Gustav H N to Carash Wandsworth 1d 1205
The mystery seems to be largely solved, so I guess I'd better send a PM!
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jax
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29 Nov 2010 02:52 |
The full 1911 census 1911 census - household transcription Person: SHEFFIELD, Joseph Address: 123 Burlington Road Thornton Heath
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TYRELL, William Bertram Head Married M 33 1878 Letter Sorter Sussex Hastings VIEW TYRELL, Esther Louisa Wife Married 8 years F 32 1879 London Balham VIEW TYRELL, Grace Isabel Daughter F 5 1906 Surrey Croydon VIEW SHEFFIELD, Joseph Father In Law Widower M 73 1838 Retired Fishmonger Old Age Pensioner London Hackney Rd 28 Charles ST VIEW GARNER, Ruby Dorothy Constance Niece Single F 16 1895 Actress Surrey Croydon VIEW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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JaneyCanuck
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29 Nov 2010 03:13 |
A name-shifting 16-yr-old actress, just like my Ada Lennox Monck Hill/Monck!
What fun. ;)
Just to help Lucy out,
Emma Georgina Sheffield born 1868 who called herself Emma Georgina Carash when she married Mr Garner 1906 had children
1. Cedric Sheffield 1893 who called himself Cedric Carash when he married 1919
and
2. Ruby Dorothy Carash 1895 who called herself Ruby Garner who was the mother of
Ruby G Gordon 1914 who married John Forder and then Arthur Vass
Name: Ruby Georgina Vass Birth Date: 12 Aug 1914 Death Registration Month/Year: 1976 Registration district: Bromley Inferred County: Kent Volume: 11 Page: 0914
Ruby Dorothy/Constance Carash/Garner 1895 daughter of Emma Georgina Sheffield Carash Garner 1868 mother of Ruby Georgina Gordon 1914 later married Gustav Hoffman/De Becker in 1935
Should have put that at the beginning, but had to figure it out first!
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rootgatherer
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29 Nov 2010 11:33 |
Well, as we have dug this one up, I'll put my tuppenceworth in. If Ruby's daughter was born in Scotland then there must surely be a birth registration - it was against the law NOT to register!
If Lucy's Nan is called Enni, then her given name is possible Georgina? (In Scotland, Georgina is often shortened to Ena)
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