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Can anyone pls tell me if there are any directories or rolls available to search for relatives in England (Lancashire to be precise) after the 1911 census? I am trying to find out what happened to my g'father, last known to be Ramsbottom Lancs in about 1924. Can't find a death for him - his name was John Abbott (b. 1877) so quite a common name & without spending a fortune in buying a cert for everyone of that name who died after 1924. I'm a bit stumped as to how I would go about this. I'm in Australia, so not sure of what else is available in the UK. Thanks in anticipation,
Kerry
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Hi Corinne,
John Abbott's father was also called John Abbott, his mother I believe was Anne or Annie, surname Delance or Bazaney (from siblings' certificates). Father born in Genoa Italy as a Brit Subject, mother Chipping Lancs (fr 1881 census) He had several siblings - Mary, Angelena, Emmie, Florrie, & then half-siblings Rosie, Angelo, Evelyn & Elsie from father's second marriage to Jane Goodwin. Got this info from a combination of 1881, 1891 & 1901 census & a couple of certificates. I hadn't been able to narrow down John's birth certificate so I'll try the one you found, thanks.
John himself married Sarah Ann Waggett in 1901 & they emigrated to Australia in about 1914 with their 4 sons & with John's sister Angelena (married name Whitehead) & her family. Separated, John returned to England (think I may have found him on a returning passenger list 1921) & he was living in Ramsbottom when divorce papers served 1924 & nothing found since then.
I have traced half-sister Elsie to a marriage to Antonio Tamburro. Have also found info re step-mother, Jane Goodwin & her family.
The dates seem to fit for the death certificate reference you found, so I think I will be ordering that (subject to checking my docs at home tonight - I have ordered a few over the years that turned out to be the wrong person, so will make sure that I don't already have this one).
Thanks again for the suggestions. Anything else springs to mind, I'll be grateful to hear it :)
Silly question I suppose, but are Bolton & Ramsbottom & Failsworth all close to each other?
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Here's the 3 censuses Kerry refers to:
1881 England Census
Civil parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 402 Oldham Road
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
John Abbott 40 (B S), Italy Head M Ice Cream Maker (Confectioner)
Anne Abbott 27 Chipping, Lancashire, England Wife M
Mary Abbott 7 Manr, Lancashire, England Daughter Scholar
Angelena Abbott 5 Manr, Lancashire, England Daughter Scholar
John Abbott 4 Manr, Lancashire, England Son Scholar
Alfred Baley 46 (B S), Italy Servant M Servant (Confectioner)
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3981; Folio: 47; Page: 2; GSU roll: 1341950.
[Note originally, it didn't say (BS) - someone has later added a B]
1891 England Census
Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Augustine
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 5 Tilt St
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 19b
John Abbott 50 Italy [Naturalized Brit Subj] Head M Ice cream - maker dealer (maker x'ed out)
Jane G Abbott 27 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife M
John Abbott 13 Manchester, Lancashire, England Son
Emmie Abbott 11 Manchester, Lancashire, England Daughter
Florrie Abbott 10 Salford, Lancashire, England Daughter
Rose Annie Abbott 2 Pendlebury, Lancashire, England Daughter
Angelo Dominic Abbott 0 [3mo] Manchester, Lancashire, England Son
Harry Goodwin 17 Manchester, Lancashire, England Lodger S Foundry Laborer
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3246; Folio 84; Page 20; GSU roll: 6098356.
1901 England Census
Civil parish: Failsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Failsworth St John the Evangelist
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 11 Field St
Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Failsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 123
John Abbott 59 Genoa, Italy Head M Labourer & Ice Cream Seller
Jane Abbott 35 Bradford M/C, Lancashire, England Wife M
Florrie Abbott 14 Salford, Lancashire, England Daughter
Rosie Abbott 12 Pendlebury, Lancashire, England Daughter
Angelo Abbott 10 Manchester, Lancashire, England Son
Evelyn Abbott 7 Failsworth, Lancashire, England Daughter
Elsie J Abbott 3 Failsworth, Lancashire, England Daughter
Raffile Ronquin 63 Genoa, Italy Boarder W Living on Own Means
Robert Goodwin 21 Bradford M/C, Lancashire, England Boarder S Carter to U D Council
Household schedule number: 125
Street Address: 26 Allen St
John Abbott 22 Manchester, Lancashire, England Head M Bricklayers Labourer
Sarah Ann Abbott 20 St Helens, Lancashire, England Wife M
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3772; Folio: 36; Page: 21.
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Kerry - I've got to take issue with a couple of things you say.
Firstly, I don't think he was born a British Subject. On 1891, it says he's naturalized, and you can't do that if you're already a Brit. Incidentally, there might be some records of this at Kew - check out the appropriate reference pamphlet.
Secondly, I don't think Florrie's a full sib. I think the 1891 enumerator stuffed up when copying their forms into the book, and wrote age 10 instead of 4.
If she'ld really been 10, she ought to have been a few months old in 1881. I can't find a 1880/81 birth for her, nor a death before 1887. I can't imagine they'ld have 2 Florrie's at the same time. She's definitely 14 by 1901, and 24 in 1911:
Births Dec 1887 (>99%)
Abbott Florinda Salford 8d 121
Marriages Jun 1909 (>99%)
ABBOTT Florinda Prestwich 8d 651
FAGGIANI Albert Prestwich 8d 651
1911
HOUSEHOLD FAGGIANE ALBERT M 1886 25 Prestwich Lancashire Head
HOUSEHOLD FAGGIANE FLORINDA F 1887 24 Prestwich Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD ABBOTT JOHN M 1838 73 Prestwich Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD ABBOTT JANE F 1865 46 Prestwich Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD ABBOTT ROSIE F 1890 21 Prestwich Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD ABBOTT ANGELO M 1892 19 Prestwich Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD ABBOTT ELSIE F 1899 12 Prestwich Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD ABBOTT HILDA F 1902 9 Prestwich Lancashire
[rd467]
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Oh wow, thank you so much. I didn't even notice the discrepancies in Florrie's age (& I don't know how many times I've looked at those darn things :) And I will try the naturalisation records - at Kew you say? I'll look it up.
Thanks Corinne, thanks mgnv!
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As you may know, one can buy a BMD cert from the GRO, or from the local RO where the event occurred. (One can also buy m.certs from the church if they're in their current register.) From Oz, usually the GRO is easiest. Lancs is a bit special as they have many of their local indices online, and they usually don't contain the same info as the GRO index.
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Here's an example:
Marriages Dec 1886 (>99%)
ABBOTT John Salford 8d 138
GOODWIN Jane Salford 8d 138
NEILD Walter Sidney Salford 8d 138
NORTON Mary Salford 8d 138
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1886
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ABBOTT John GOODWIN Jane Salford St Simon Salford C27/16/18
Failsworth used to be in Prestwich RD, most of which is now under Manchester RD, and not much of the B's and D's have been transcribed for Manchester.
The other resource that Lancs has is a number of transcribed parish registers, but I spotted nothing of interest.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html
Failsworth is 7km NE of Manchester, halfway to Oldham; Bury is abt 12km N of Manchester; Bolton is 10km W of Bury; Ramsbottom is 7km N of Bury.
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thanks again for all your help; it's late here & my eyes feel like they're falling out of my head, so off to bed now & back to the search tomorrow.
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Hi Corinne,
Yes, the 1878 ref is my gfather, thanks for that.
Ken, will try the Ramsbottom heritage soc, thank you for the suggestion.
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Just wanted to let you know that I have now found several new connections through your finding Florinda & Hilda (who I didn't know about before) so thank you again.
Also think Angelo is listed in ancestry marriage records as Angelo Dominic Abba (there have been a coupooe of Abbootts wrongly transcribed as Abba) marriage to Louisa Payton Prestwich 1916, & if this is right there are issue there too, so it's all happening.
Somewhere surely there is someone who knows what happened to my g'father :)
Have ordered a couple more certificates, the search continues.
You are stars, mgnv & Corrinne.
Kerry
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