Find Ancestors

Have you tried a google search? For general info this often works well. Came across this site:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/ennever/stories/richard.htm

EDIT Re-reading your post is the removal order just a red herring - are you really just looking for him??

Jan

you could try the National Archives site or it may be at the Chelmsford Records Office which you can contact.
The Essex Record Office is in Wharf Road, Chelmsford.

Our full postal address is: Essex Record Office, Wharf Road, Chelmsford, CM2 6YT.

We can be contacted by phone on 01245 244644, or you can e mail us

Brummejam
I am looking for him and any information on the removal order if indeed he did have one . I did try google and have found removal orders for various other people but not him. I wondered why he would have a removal order as he was a master brickmaker employing several men so not poor. I had tried an Essex family history website but will try the one you have stated thanks very much but how do I e-mail them

Is this the family in question !! For Ref !!

1851 England Census
about William Allen
Name: William Allen
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1796
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Esther
Gender: Male
Where born: Safron Walden, Essex, England

Civil parish: Deerhurst
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Tewkesbury
Sub-registration district: Deerhurst
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 18
Household Members: Name Age
William Allen 55
Esther Allen 49
Thomas Allen 24
Jerimiah Ball 11
Henry Healing 28
Frances Healing 22

Susan yes that is the family in 1851 but I can not find them in 1841 I have Esther parents but can find nothing on William AllenThank you

Hi
1851 census

Name William Allen
Age 55
Estimated Year of Birth 1796
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Brick Maker Master Emp 5 Men
Address
District Tewkesbury, Deerhurst
Parish Deerhurst
Administrative County Gloucestershire
Birth Place Safron Walden
Birth County Essex
in house
williaqm head 55
eather wife 49
thomas son 24
jeremiah ball grandson 11
henry healing 28
frances healing 22
HO 107 / 1974


1861 census
William Allen
Age 66
Estimated Year of Birth 1795
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Brick Maker
Address Apperley
District Tewkesbury, Deerhurst
Parish Deerhurst
Administrative County Gloucestershire
Birth Place Saffron Walden
Birth County Essex
in house
william head 66
esther wife 61
francis ball daughter 41
robert ball grandson 18
ann ball grandaughter 19
robert parsons father in law 88 widower
RG 9 / 1804

I have found William Allen on the 1841 census so don't worry about that.
The information I have on the removal order is that it is dated 16/06/1828 and he had three children with him. This information was given to me by some one else on Genes reunited who I share some ancestors like William Allen with and I am just trying to verify this information. I have William Allen born in c1796, his wife Esther Parsons born c1801 and their children Frances (born 1821), Thomas (1826), James (born 1828) and Harriet (born 07/03/1832), all born in gloucestershire. I have Ester's parents so I am just trying to verify the removal order and find more information on William Allen himself. Thanks for all the help and any further help you are able to give.

possible
1871 census

Name Esther Allen
Age 68
Estimated Year of Birth 1803
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation
Address Village
District Tewkesbury, Deerhurst
Parish Forthampton
Administrative County Gloucestershire
Birth Place Gloucestershire
Birth County Gloucestershire
in house
esther head 68 widow
RG 10 / 2676

I think this maybe them in 1841.
Ester is called Hester.

1841 England Census
about Thomas Allen
Name: Thomas Allen
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Gender: Male
Where born: Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Deerhurst
Hundred: Westminster (Lower Division)
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Tewkesbury
Sub-registration district: Deerhurst
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Allen 45
Hester Allen 40
Thomas Allen 14
James Allen 12

One renoval order for William Allen.

Removal Order Kirton in Lindsey

From Willoughton 1843.
That is all it says sorry, not him anyway

93
William ALLEN, wife Eliza, children Lucy, 3,
Fr Willoughton
1843
George, 18 months (2 items).

I would be inclined to ask a bit more of your relative - they must have some evidence to support what they say, so I'm not sure why you should have to search for it! Where did they come across this I wonder.
Jan

Shirley ,
What I understood a removal order to be was under the Poor Law if someone had moved parishes and could no longer support themselves then they were sent back to their home parish possibly for outdoor relief. But there may be other reasons for removal orders

I would pursue the Essex Record Office route.

A removal order can be a wonderful source of info. Back when there was familyhistoryonline.net, I searched for one of my people and found the family being removed from Dorset back to Wiltshire under the Poor Law, in January 1791. The record gave the names and ages of the parents and both children. These were my grx4 grandparents, just before the birth of my grx3 grandfather.

This let me know that one of the children whose 1785 birth I had found in the IGI had died in childhood and I did not need to look for her. It also told me there was a child born in 1790 I would not have known of, because there is no birth record anywhere I can find (don't even know whether it would have been Wiltshire or Dorset, but now I have some ideas for later searching). It's even possible that Dorset was the wife's place of origin -- I know where the husband was from, but not the wife.

I contacted the Wiltshire records office and was able to obtain a photocopy of the removal order itself.

I understand that FMP now has the records that were at familyhistoryonline.net (where previously the info from various records office documents could be obtained for a few pence -- a shame, as it had a great database and search function and of course was a reasonable price). It might be worth looking there, although I suspect Essex records were not as extensive at familyhistoryonline as some other counties.

Good luck!

I have just recived a reply from the relative who I got the information from, and according to him William Allen was a master brick layer in 1851 and according to the 1841 census he was only a brick maker, so could possibly have been out of work in 1828. . He can't remember the source if his information but thinks it was probably Gloucestershire records office, so I will try there after Essex records office.

I have just found out that Esther's father Robert was a brick maker, so it could have been that William was working for or apprenticed to him (which is how he and Esther met and married), then for whatever reason decided to go back to his birth county of Essex but was unable to get a job or something like that so was sent back to Tewkesbury. I am only surmising but this seems to be the only way that makes sense to me and woudl explain why all the children are born in Tewkesbury.

There are these submitted records in the IGI

Thomas Allen
Birth: 25 DEC 1826 Apperley, Gloucester, England
Death: 07 FEB 1914 Apperley, Gloucester, England
Burial: 11 FEB 1914 Deer-Hurst, , Gloucester, England
Father: William Allen
Mother: Esther or Hester
Spouse: Mary Ann Bayliss


James Allen
Christening: 25 DEC 1828 Apperley, Gloucester, England
Father: William Allen
Mother: Esther or Hester


It does look as though someone may have researched in the original parish records, at least in the case of James.

Oops - there are also extracted records.

THOMAS ALLEN
Christening: 25 DEC 1826 Deerhurst, Gloucester, England
Father: WILLIAM ALLEN
Mother: ESTHER
Batch No.: C027844


JAMES ALLEN
Christening: 25 DEC 1828 Deerhurst, Gloucester, England
Father: WILLIAM ALLEN
Mother: HESTER
Batch No.: C027844


Frances and Harriet as well, earlier.


I'm just thinking they give you confirmed sightings for time and place.

Ordinarily a Poor Law removal order would send an individual back to their birth parish (or the birth parish of the head of household). I would think it odd for a person born in Essex to be removed to Gloucestershire.

I believe I've read that if someone were to be removed to a parish other than their birth parish, there would have had to be some very good connection to that parish established. From place of birth to another place would seem unusual.

I think that for some reason William Allen was working in or around Tewkesbury with or for his father in law married and had children then for some unknown reason went back to Essex but could not support himself and was sent back to Tewkesbury where he had worked and possibly served an apprentice ship one of the reasons you could be sent back to somewhere other than your birth parish . Of course this is all conjecture I was just hoping to find some more information. It has been very nice sharing information with you all but must go now as needed as a taxi for the teenage children Thanks very much