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Hi, I'm quite new to this and am trying to find information about my great grandfather David Emlyn Davies born sometime between 1870-1877 at Trevethin in South Wales. He married Elizabeth Davies 1866 from Ystradyfodwg. Can anybody help?
Sue

Their marriage certificate will be the place to start -- if you don't have it.

In the probable time frame (do you know when they married?), and assuming he used his full name when he married (there being too many David and David E Davies to even begin to consider), this is the only one who may have married an Elizabeth Davies:

Name: David Emlyn Davies
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Bridgend
County: Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 837

You should always find the marriage first at

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

to check that things like volume and page number have been correctly transcribed.

If/when you have the marriage certificate, it will give their ages and fathers' names. Then you can go hunting backward.

Thanks Kathryn, that was quick. I'll have a look for their marriage details. I do know that David's father was also called David. Can you give me any other tips?

Any other tips? Yeah: don't have Welsh ancestors!

The marriage certificate should give you a better handle on his age, for looking in censuses. But looking for David Davies-s ... my tip is: cross your fingers, but don't hold your breath. ;)

In the 1881 census, you have 3 possibles on a quick glance (and not looking for mistranscriptions) -- and I haven't looked closely at any of them --

Name: David Davies
Birth: abt 1872 - Trevethin, Monmouth, Wales
Residence: 1881 - Trevethin, Monmouthshire, Wales
- with mother Sarah; father?

Name: David Davies
Father: David, Mother: Margaret
Birth: abt 1877 - Trevethin, Monmouth, Wales
Residence: 1881 - Trevethin, Monmouthshire, Wales

Name: David Davies
Grandparents: Jones; parents ?
Birth: abt 1875 - Trevethin, Monmouth, Wales
Residence: 1881 - Trevethin, Monmouthshire, Wales


So I say start with the marriage certificate and try to rule someone out!

Big caveat though -- no assurance at all that the marriage I gave is your people.

If you search at FreeBMD for David Davies marrying Elizabeth Davies, you'll get an idea of the possibilities.

If there's any way you can find out the date of their marriage, from living family e.g., or at least get an educated guess from the birthdates of children, that would be the most important thing.

Do you think your David was a Licensed victualler.
In the 1901 Wales census
David E Davies born 1874 living Ystradyfodyg with Elizabeth J Davies 28
daughter Mary B.
Regards Irene

And a 2-yr-old daughter would even go with that marriage!

Personally, I think we should just sort out everybody in the censuses by logic, and assign them to whom and where they obviously belong. ;)

Seriously, though, they look like a good pair.

Also -- a marriage certificate will given the groom's occupation, so that could help rule in / rule out possible people in the 1901.

David & Elizabeth had 6 children, the eldest being Doris in 1901. No Mary though.

Can anyone else help?

Ah, more information leaks out.

Can you give us the details of Doris's birth registration?

It could narrow the place of the marriage somewhat, d'you think?

There were several Doris Davies-s born in 1901. Swansea? Newport? South Glamorgan? Llanelli? Welsh geography / registration districts are a complete mystery to me still, so I can't guess what might be the one.

If we know, we could see what marriage might best match up with it.

May as well tell us when and where the other kids were born and what their names were, too. Children's names can help when looking for parents' families.

Have you decided whether to order the marriage certificate for the marriage I suggested? Again, I have no idea whether it's in the right place.

Have you tried searching at FreeBMD as I suggested, for David Davies marriages to Elizabeth Davies in the probable time period, to see whether any locations match with info you have?

You have some kind of certificates, do you? A birth or marriage certificate for one of their children?

The question about his occupation remains unanswered. What does it say on whatever certificate(s) you have? It could be possible to match him up with someone on the 1901 census with the same occupation. (We cross our fingers that it isn't coal miner ...) If he's found on the census, he could possibly be traced backward ...

While you're at it -- *any other info* you have.

One other thing -- David and Elizabeth could have had a child before Doris who died in infancy/childhood, whom you don't know about. So they could have had a child in the 1901 census, and been married a littler earlier than thought otherwise.

Their children were Doris c1901 Croychurch, South Glam, Glyn c902, Muriel c1903, Mervyn c1904 Brynna or Barry, South Glam, Sylvia c1905 and my grandfather Winston Edward born 1906 in Brynna/Barry

Yes ... and ...??

C'mon, Susan. We shouldn't have to pry information out of you.

Do you have a birth or marriage certificate for any of those children?

Does any certificate you have say WHAT DAVID EMLYN DAVIES' OCCUPATION WAS?

If you don't have that information, just say so!

If you do, why will you not share it??

Uh ... Croychurch? Or Coychurch?

I ask Google Maps for CROYCHURCH, and it asks me whether I want COYCHURCH.

About ready to pack it in ...

1901 census:


Name: David Emlyn Davies
Age in 1901: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales

Name: Elizabeth Davies
Age in 1901: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: David Emlyn
Gender: Female
Where born: Cwmaman, Glamorgan, Wales


Civil Parish: Coychurch
Ecclesiastical parish: Coychurch St Crallo and Peterstone St Peter
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Registration district: Bridgend
Sub-registration district: Bridgend
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Household schedule number: 32

Annetta Jennie Davies 12
David Emlyn Davies 24
Doris Ailun Davies 4 months
Elizabeth Davies 33
Hilda Davies 7
James Douglas Davies 9
Catherine Ann Edwards 27


He is a schoolmaster, she is a schoolmistress, and the children are theirs, so that's probably not them.

Thanks Kathryn, I think it's probably them as I know David Emlyn Davies was a Headmaster and Elizabeth was a teacher. I think I remember someone also saying his father was a teacher. The information you have found adds a bit to what I already knew.

Oh well then, there you are!

And once again, if only you'd disclosed that info in the first place ...

And with three older chlidren.

Given that Elizabeth is a fair bit older than David, the children may be hers from a previous marriage. In fact they must be; he's 24 and one of them is 12.

Which means that Davies may be her previous married surname, and not her birth surname. Or her two older children could have been born with different surnames, her previous husband's, and adopted David's surname when they married, which also happened to be her birth surname.

Of course we STILL don't know what the mother's surname name was on the birth certificates of any of David Emlyn Davies's children. So who knows?

I'll leave it with you now.

1891


Name: Elizabeth Davies
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Isaac A
Gender: Female
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews
Town: Clydach
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 25

Annetta Jane Davies 2 <<<<
Elizabeth Davies 24
Isaac A Davies 28 - Under manager of coal mine


A daughter in the next household is an assistant schoolmistress.



Marriages Sep 1888
DAVIES Elizabeth Pontypridd 11a 589
DAVIES Isaac Pontypridd 11a 589

Yes, I found out that Elizabeth was married to Isaac who died, She then married David who was Isaac's brother.

What I really want to know is how I would go about finding out details on David & Isacc's parents. I don't know anything about them, except that their father may also have been David

Count me out for now, Susan!

It seems all I've done so far is spend a lot of time finding info that you then say -- oh yes, I've found out [whatever it is I spent all that time finding out]. It seems that the whole exercise has been a bit of a waste of time -- you had, or had access to, the info about their occupation, the previous marriage, etc., and didn't need any of us looking for it.

But for starters, you get the father's name by ordering the two marriage certificates I have provided the info for.

One might also think it would be relatively easy to find them together in their parents' household as children. The 1881 census is free to search at Ancestry.

Sorry if you feel that you have wasted your time but you have been helpful to me. As I said before you have added to what information I already had.
You have also told me about getting free access to Ancestry and where to get info about marriage certificates so I will give that a go.

Thanks