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In a previous thread " The Salford Armstrongs" I identified Thomas Armstrong married to Eleanor Hughes in Manchester.
It was suggested I buy the marriage certificate which I did.

He is 36 and a tailor when married in 1855. His father as already thought was Richard Armstrong, also a tailor

She is 30 in I855. Her father was Edward, a moulder. I know she was born in Denbighshire in Wales but I can't find that family in any of the census's. Any help would be appreciated

Possible in 1841 - ages were rounded down in this census:

1841 Wales Census
about Eleanor Hughes
Name: Eleanor Hughes
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Denbighshire, Wales

Civil parish: Llandewy Velfrey
Hundred: Isaled
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: St Asaph
Sub-registration district: Denbigh
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Name
Richard Foulkes 15
David Davies 15
Eleanor Hughes 20

Where did the marriage take place?

Who were the witnesses?

Yes, I did get the birthplace from the census but numerous and it is an unusual name to make up and remember but you may be right

Yes it may be second marriage but the father is definitely Edward and why is she missing in 1841 - she would not be maaried then. I don't think that she would be 20 - unless, of course, she lied again

Hello again Flick - the marriage took place in Manchester 20-05-1855 by Westmore chaplain, witnesses William and Martha Hood

1871

Just to back up the 1861 and 1881 which I posted on your Armstrong thread - both of which gave her birthplace as Wrexham

Name: Ellen Armstrong
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Greengate
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 85
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Armstrong 52
Ellen Armstrong 46
Martha Armstrong 11
Richard Armstrong 9
Thomas Armstrong 2

Hi Harold

This is a possibility for your Edward Hughes in 1851, according to the original image his occupation is a Moulder. No daughter Eleanor but she may be on the 1841.
Edward Hughes
Age: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1800
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Wrexham Abbot
Town: Wrexham
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Ruabon
ED, institution, or vessel: 5b
Household schedule number: 140
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Hughes 51
Martha Hughes 49
Thomas Hughes 24
John Hughes 15
James Hughes 6
George Yarde 45

regards

Ruth

Wrexham is included in Ancestry's list of places missing from the 1841

In view of Flick & Potty's revelations about Wrexham, I am very tempted to take Ruth's family as the one we are looking for - it has Edward as a moulder which we know to be true. Also later Thomas and Eleanor name their first born Martha. What is the general consensus - yes, no or only possible?

Who is Martha Hood, one of witnesses

Hi Harold

Not sure why Ancestry believe that the 1841 census for Wrexham is missing. Ruthin record office has a copy, my husbands family also lived in the Wrexham Abbot area, and I have the census going back to 1841.
I hope to visit the record office in April so if you've had no luck with finding the details before then, I'll see if I can find the family for you on the census.

regards

Ruth

Thanks Ruth that would be brilliant - unless I get an Eleanor living with that family you identified I have proved nothing

Hi Harold

No problem - I know what it's like to be stuck on one piece of information. I'll get back to you when I've been to the record office. it will be sometime in the week beginning the 12.4.10.

regards

Ruth

Both the Ruabon and Wrexham 1841 censuses are officially "lost", probably back in 1841? However, two of the missing census books containing the Wrexham town census have been discovered by the Clwyd Family History Society and are available for purchase on CD from the society. The local Archive has a copy of this CD, Ancestry do not!

Thank you bromaelor - I'll try and access a copy

Hi Harold

I've been to the record office today, I did not manage to find Edward Hughes, Moulder on the 1841 census - they must be in the missing part.

However I took a look at the Parish registers for Wrexham and came up with the following. Hope it helps.

Looks as if the first two were twins as there was no added notes in the register to say that one had been born earlier.

Wrexham Parish Registers

Marriage
Edward Hughes a Moulder of this Parish and Bachelor and Martha Youde of this Parish a Spinster were married in this Church by banns with consent of parents this Twenty Seventh Day of August in the year One Thousand Eigh Hundred and Twenty Six by me Ebenezer Williams Curate.
This marriage was solemnised between us Edward Hughes
Martha Youde both mark with an X
In the presence of William Hughes (signs)
Rebecca Hughes marks with an X


Baptisms
2 November 1828 Thomas son of Edward and Martha Hughes Pen Y Bryn Moulder
2 November 1828 Ellen daughter of Edward and Martha Hughes Pen Y Bryn Moulder
10 February 1833 Elizabeth daughter of Edward and Martha Hughes Pen Y Bryn Moulder
4 January 1835 John son of Edward and Martha Hughes Wrexham Abbot Moulder
4 January 1837 William son of Edward and Martha Hughes Pen Y Bryn Moulder
25 September 1839 Bernard son of Edward and Martha Hughes Pen Y Bryn Moulder
7 January 1842 Elizabeth daughter of Edward and Martha Hughes Pen Y Bryn Moulder
9 August 1843 Bernard son of Edward and Martha Hughes Pen Y Bryn Moulder
20 November 1844 James son of Edward and Martha Hughes Pen Y Bryn Moulder

There were a few "Youde" familys in the Wrexham registers.

regards

Ruth

Thanks so much Ruth, that is very interesting. And Martha being a Youde fits with the 1851 census when the family had a George Yarde staying with them - the transcript says son-in-law but the original does not look like that to me - says lodger and more likely to be Martha's brother'

Ellen is there but not sure where, apart from Thomas, John, James where all the kids are in 1951. Ellen and Elizabeth may have left but Benard and Elizabeth are only young. Maybe there are 2 families and why 2 Elizabeths and Bernards?

Best Regards Harry

Hi Harry

I would assume that the first Bernard and Elizabeth died, and then possibly the others as well as they don't appear on the 1851 census. I did not look at the burial records, but they would probably reveal that they died. It was also common to name children the same as previous ones who had died.

My thought was also that George Yarde was probably Marthas brother.

regards

Ruth

Thanks Ruth, you have been incredibly helpful

Best Regards Harry