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That can help with information on the Woolwich Arsenal in 1900, any personnel records, this is when my husband's grandfather Henry Jones worked there as a Blacksmith and then disappeared, he was born in Flintshire in 1867 and in December 1900 his son's birth certificate states he was in the Arsenal, his wife remarried in August 1902 and she was down as a widow on the new marriage cert.

Any help would he gratefully received

Regards

Margaret

Colin

His wife appears on the 1901 census as Single with her son living and with her mother and her new husband, so no clues here.

PigletsPAl

I did visit the Heritage Centre at Woolwich but was disappointed with the lack of help, I was given a contact at the Ministry of Defence but this did not produce any results

Hence this is why I am seeking help from Genesreunited as I have always been pleased with help that I have been given

Thanks again

Regards

Margaret

Have you searched for his death?

Where were they living at the time of the sons birth?
Was he still alive at the time of the registration of the birth or does it say he was deceased?

Hello

I haven't found his death in the London area nor Swindon where his wife lived around the time of his death.

His wife remarried in August 1902 and the marriage certificate states she was a widow. So I am looking for his death from December 1900 where his son's birth certificate stated he was a Blacksmith in the Woolwich Arsenal but not stating he was deceased

His wife's name was Sarah Jane Smart dob 1876 Calne Wiltshire, she then married Henry Jones in 1898 when he was working at the Swindon Railway works as a Blacksmith. I have been unable to find him in the 1891 census but I do know that he was working in the railways at Swindon in 1888. I have someone checking his employment in the Railways from 1888 to around 1898. Nothing found yet so gaps are beginning to be filled.

Please mail me if there is anything else I can clarify for you both

Thanks again for your help

Tegards

Margaret

Interesting as there was a complete railway system in the Woolwich Arsenal so it is possible he was working on that. One of the steam engines is still working in Devon.

I think there is a Woolwich Industrial history society but I have forgotton the name of it but I am sure it will come up with Google.

Here is one page to start with.

http://gihs.gold.ac.uk/gihs14.html

1901 census

Name: Sarah J Horton
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: Calne, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Swindon
Ecclesiastical parish: Swindon St Mark
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England



Registration district: Swindon
Sub-registration district: Swindon
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 161
Household Members: Name Age
William Horton 43
Jane Horton 42
Sarah J Horton 25
Alfred Horton 19
Ernest Horton 17
William Horton 6
Mary Horton 7
Henry R C Jones 4 months

Piglet, you would be surprised at the changes there now! Millions being pumped into regeneration, even the tube DLR station there now.

There's an interesting guide here on the TNA "Your Archives"

http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Royal_Arsenal_Woolwich_employees

1911

JONES HENRY R C M 1901 10 Swindon Wiltshire
MANNERS ALFRED JAMES M 1911 3 MONTHS Swindon Wiltshire
MANNERS EDWID CLAUDE M 1882 29 Swindon Wiltshire
MANNERS JAMES C C M 1903 8 Swindon Wiltshire
MANNERS MARY F 1909 2 Swindon Wiltshire
MANNERS QUEENIE F 1906 5 Swindon Wiltshire
MANNERS SARAH JANE F 1876 35 Swindon Wiltshire

Marriages Sep 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Sarah Jane Swindon 5a 71
Manners Edwin Swindon 5a 71

Hello

Thanks for suggestions

Sarah's second husband was Edwin Claude Manners, dob 1881 in Warminster Wilts, they married in 1902. Cannot find him in 1901 , he was in the army when he married Sarah so perhaps he was out of the country. I am confused as to how they married so soon after his death unless he died and they didn't know about it!!!

Oh dear how frustrating

Regards

Margaret

Thanks freewheel, I have the 1911 census that proves they married but not 1901 census

Margaret

Perhaps Henry didn't die - it seems very strange that Sarah is described on 1901 as M - crossed out, replaced by S - and is listed as Horton!

If she'd been a widow, she'd have had nothing to hide.

If Edwin was a soldier, they may have met whilst he was at Woolwich................

Thanks" was plain ann now annielaurie" I will try this and see what happens

Thanks again

Margaret

Yes freewheel

that had crossed my mind but I cannot locate him in the 1911 census, there are many but not him, only a death in 1903 in Bangalore India, just to throw in another diversion. But where was he and why can't I find his death

Regards

Margaret

Is this Edwin in 1891?

Name: Edwin G Manners
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Agnes B
Gender: Male
Where born: Bishopstrow, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Sutton Veny
Ecclesiastical parish: Sutton Veny
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Warminster
Sub-registration district: Longbridge Deverill
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Manners 29
Agnes B Manners 30
Edwin G Manners 9
Fred W G Manners 4

Hello freewheel, I found him in 1891 but that wasn't relevant only 1901 would be, it crossed my mind that Henry and Edwin might have known each other as according to family members Henry always wanted to join the Army but no trace of records, only this connection with Woolwich Arsenal

I was assured by a researcher in TNA when I showed him his son's Birth certificate that he wasn't in the Arrny he was a civilian and nothing I have found suggests otherwise.

In 1891 there is a Henry Jones in Scotland in Maryhill Barracks in the Royal Lancashire Fusiliers but nothing else can be found on him, would you be able to advise what I do next

Margaret

Colin

Sarah's mother had re-married

Margaret

I realise that Henry was a civilian - the point I was trying to make - unsuccessfully - was that Sarah could have met Edwin at Woolwich, and dumped Henry in favour of Edwin

Yes freewheel she could have dumped Henry in favour of Edwin, but that still leaves me with trying to find out how and when he died.

I think I need someone to tell me to get a life and accept that he died without anyone knowing when and where

But I have so much info that I really would like to keep trying

Oh dear!!

Regards

Margaret

I admire your persistence - hope it gets its just reward.

Don't give up - you'll find an answer some day