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trying to trace ancestors of edward turner 1831 west australia married to elizabeth martin 1832 sussex married west aust 1854
amelia turner daughter 1870 may have married to surname mahood

elizabeth aged 9 years on arrival in australia


Leslie

There are a half-dozen Elizabeth Martins in the 1841 census in Sussex who could be yours (if she was still there in 1841).

Do you have any other information at all -- a parent's name from a marriage or death certificate?

Without one clue to go on (location, parent, date of birth/christening), you could try to trace the 1841 Elizabeth Martins forward in censuses and marriages and see what happened to them, to rule them out one by one, but that would not likely be conclusive ... unless you bought quite a lot of certificates, lol, and probably not even then.

Hi Leslie

Your best bet if you are seeking ancestors is to order the marriage certificate (Perth WA 1854/731).

Elizabeth died in WA aged 69 in 1902, born Sussex, father's name was Henry, no other info (reg 1405). Assuming since Elizabeth came to WA as a child, her parents came too, then a Henry MARTIN died in WA in 1871 aged 70 (reg 5033).

Looks like Edward died in 1873 aged 41, no parents info for him (reg 6461). Note this left Elizabeth a widow with 8 children, including an infant!

If you are seeking descendants I have lots of info I can share with you.

Amelia did not marry a Mahood - she married Wm McKAY in 1895 and died in 1902 aged 32.

have found parents for elizabeth am seeking parents to edward i think born in aust would like to find grand parents to elizabeth william turner father of edward is thought tro have arrived with stirling 1829 origin not knowen difficult to access english records

Leslie, if you had Elizabeth Martin's parents, you should have given their names. If you want to find her grandparents' names, I don't know how you expect anyone to help you if you do not state her parents' names. Sigh. Ditto for Edward ...

We can only assume you would like assistance with this, since you did not actually request it, or say "please", or anything like that.

Just in case you meant to say "thank you": you're welcome.

sorry dident mean to sound rude parents to elizabeth martin were henery martin sussex 1804-1871 elizabeth batcup 1802-1877 father to edward turner was william turner who is suppossed to have arrived in australia with governor stirling in 1829
i apprecieate any help i can get

Leslie Rich

This Elizabeth Martin in Sussex had parents Henry and Elizabeth in 1841:


Name: Elizabeth Martin
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Where born: Sussex, England

Civil Parish: Salehurst
County/Island: Sussex
Registration district: Ticehurst

Henry Martin 40
Elizabeth Martin 40
Harriett Martin 15
Mercey Martin 13
Eliza Martin 11
Francis Martin 5
Elizabeth Martin 8


She's the only one I see who does.

There is another Elizabeth in this household who is likely a little old, but one never knows:


Name: Elizabeth Martin
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Where born: Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Warbleton
County/Island: Sussex

Jesse Oliver 55
Eliza Oliver 25
Thomas Oliver 15
James Oliver 5
Harriet Oliver 4
Joseph Oliver 2


Another sole Elizabeth Martin who is transcribed as aged 5 is actually 35. Sigh.

I also checked for Eliz* Mart*/Mort* to account for Eliza, Elizth, Marten, Mortin, and whatnot variants and mistranscriptions, but that first one is the only one with Henry and Elizabeth in the household.

The IGI has 8 records, 4 for each of Eliza and Elizabeth Martin of Salehurst, daughters of Henry Martin and Elizabeth Burgess.

They are all submitted by unknown persons and therefore not authoritative.

There are two different christening dates in 1830 for Eliza, and one date in 1833 for Elizabeth: 06 JAN 1833 (one submission calls that the birth date) - likely a December 1832 birth.

Anyhow -- that Eliza and Elizabeth look like the ones in the 1841 census, children of Henry and Elizabeth, in Salehurst.

I'm afraid that since you are still eking out info and not citing sources, I still don't know whether I am just repeating research that has already been done.

Like -- the names and dates for Elizabeth's parents come from - ?

In the IGI:

Henry Martin
Spouse: Elizabeth Batcup
Marriage: About 1822 , , England

Very sketchy, that!

For the Martin-Burgess couple, there are numerous unauthoritative submissions with this info:

Henry Martin
Christening: 09 JUN 1801 Salehurst, Sussex, England
Father: Joseph Martin
Mother: Mary Best
Marriages:
Spouse: Elizabeth Burgess
Marriage: 29 NOV 1822 Salehurst, Sussex, England

The only Henry Martin of that age left in Salehurst in 1851 is the one with son George who is also there in 1841. No Elizabeth Sr. either.

Unfortunately, those Martins had mostly daughters who would likely have been married by 1851 ("Francis" in 1841 is a girl). Child mortality was high, as well.

Mercey and Francis are the most unusual names of the batch, and 1851 shows no Merc* or Franc* of those ages in or born in Salehurst.

There is this death:

Deaths Sep 1850
Martin Frances Ticehurst 7 319

and also two Henry deaths and a Harriott death between 1841 and 1851 in Ticehurst. And two Elizabeth marriages (she could have remarried if widowed), in 1850 and post-census in 1851.

... I've tried to trace the 4 1850 couples in 1851. The Elizabeth Martin may have married William Walker; there is a couple with children born well before 1850, one of whom is Fanny aged 10; a combined household is possible. But a Fanny Walker was born in Ticehurst in 1841, so that would not be Frances Martin.

The Martin family from 1841 does seem to have gone poof by 1851. You might want to consider them.

If you search the IGI for births using only parents' names - Henry Martin and Elizabeth Burgess -- you will find all the children from the 1841 household, in multiple records, all apparently submitted rather than extracted from parish records. It does look like someone has done actual homework in the parish records though, although that doesn't explain the discrepancies for Elizabeth.


--- Oh, how interesting.

Doing a search in the IGI for children of Henry Martin and Elizabeth Batcup turns up exactly the same list of children (with a marriage in Australia shown for Frances, the only one I looked at details for other than Elizabeth, for whom there is no marriage). A search in "Ancestral Files" at the LDS site gives the same Martin-Batcup list, but no Martin-Burgess list.

So I have indeed found the right household in 1841 -- the right household to match the info you have from somewhere, anyway.

You likely need to do two things.

Get access to the actual Sussex parish records.

Determine whether the source of the info at the LDS site can be identified and contacted.

I have a feeling I have been going in circles here ... but one last thing.

The batch numbers for Salehurst christenings in the IGI are C135482, C135485 and C135487. I don't see anything useful there.

Hi again Leslie

I have to agree with EvieBeavie, a simple thank you doesn't go astray...

On William TURNER's arrival in WA c1829.

He did not arrive on the Parmelia with the Stirlings, nor any of the other 12 ships that arrived that year.

You can check passenger lists for yourself on this site: http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/shipping/mig-wa.htm

On board Warrior in 1830 was a John Woodward TURNER, aged 50 (born c1780), who came with his wife Maria (35), children (ranging in age from 18 to 3!)and servants from London. No Wms or Edwards. I can't help wondering if the whole Stirling story was a fanciful romantic tale made up by an imaginative rellie.

Births in WA were not registered formally until 1841 so Edward's birth if he was born here would only be in church records.

Folowing up from EvieBeavie's good work above, the death I found for Henry Martin in 1871 is the right one. Elizabeth MARTIN's death in 1877 shows her age as 80 but does not list parents names (reg 9147).

I have marriages/deaths for chn of Henry & Elizabeth if you are interested. There are some discrepancies with the info on the IGI. I can even trace their children...let me know.

Cheers
Cherilyn

I think you are probably right about turner and stirling information i have was published byMckay side of line amelia turner married william mckay 1895
recieved publication today
henery martin elizabeth batcup family samual harriet mercy eliza elizabeth frances henery alfrd no dates

edward and elizabeth great great grand parents
william katherine day great grand parents
william winifred mildern grand parents
margaret turner henery rich parents

was interested in searching direct line rich turner mildern

thanks for all the help you have given me because i dident have a clue where to start initially

Les Rich

Oh well, Leslie.

You still are not giving ANY SOURCES for the information you keep repeating.

I find it enormously frustrating to research something someone states as fact and find that it is unverifiable and possibly untrue.

"henery martin elizabeth batcup family samual harriet mercy eliza elizabeth frances henery alfrd no dates "

I HAVE JUST GIVEN YOU the 1841census with those names and approx birthdates, AND the IGI entries with conflicting and unverified information about Elizabeth's name.

AND I went to considerable lengths to try to figure out whether that 1841 family was the right one.

And all this time YOU ALREADY HAD all those names, although I still don't know where you got them. (Or maybe not, this may be from the "publication" you say you have just received. What publication ... who the heck knows ...)

What you write is so cryptic that it is virtually unintelligible half the time, and you simply do not acknowledge anything you are given.

Enough for me.

Ditto