Find Ancestors

Australia calling...I would be very grateful if some kind soul could please help me find any information about the date, location or anything else regarding the death of this lady . Nine years of searching to no avail. The last info I have is her wedding day and that to date she hasn't been found on the 1911C.

If there is any info re her husband's death that would be a bonus, but she is the main point of interest. A real bonus would be to discover if they had any children, but finding out when and where she died and if possible where she is buried would be just wonderful.

Many thanks in advance
Helen

CLARA LOUISE (LOUISA) HARTLEY..NEE..NICHOLSON

BORN: 1864 - CARLTON - MELBOURNE- AUSTRALIA

FATHER: JAMES CHARLES WILSON NICHOLSON

MOTHER: DIANA NICHOLSON NEE RUSHWORTH

BROTHER: LOUIS EDWIN

BORN: 1862 - CARLTON - MELBOURNE - AUSTRALIA

MARRIED: GEORGE HENRY HARTLEY

BORN: 1853 - HORTON - BRADFORD

FATHER: GEORGE HENRY HARTLEY B: 1821

MOTHER: SARAH ROBERTSHAW B: 1824

MARRIED: - 6TH JULY 1893 - BRADFORD CATHEDRAL

Hi,

Think you've hit the submit button twice.

I would delete the other to stop any duplicated searching.


Dee x

Message for DEE...Sorry..bad hair day...just saw the "delete" button under the posting..Silly me!! Helen

Hi Helen,

I had a look about last night on the net and couldn't find anything of Clara and George after they married.......... they just seemed to disappear.

I noted your tree on Ancestry and see that you have just a Mrs Hartley going to Oz... presumably for her fathers death, and then the lady vanishes.

Have you tried asking Cherilyn to have a look in Oz for you? Or do you think that they died in the UK?

Dee x

Hi Dee. Thanks for trying. I really appreciate it. No, I haven't asked Cherilyn for help as yet. I suspect George died before 1907 as he wasn't mentioned in Clara's father's obits, but I'm not sure. I think they died in the UK, but then again I have no evidence of anything so it's just going on instinct from all the research. Not on the 1901 or 1911c (mind you, someone checked when it was first released then I heard later that it wasn't complete at that time). Two of the 3 female children on the 1907 voyaget and subsequent voyages came back again when in their early twenties, but I lost track of them. I wondered why they kept coming back, so perhaps Clara did return here to live and died here and I just haven't had the experience to know where to look. Interestingly enough, the librarian got the full copy of the manifest etc from PROV...it says that the Mr. Hartley joined the journey in Adelaide...hmm..he has initials that match one of Georg'es brothers..and that brother was by chance an insurance clerk...they had his nationality (and Clara and the girls) listed as "Colonials"...Clara's Dad's business had interests in Adelaide..I wonder if not only George, but one of his brothers joined Nicholson's after the marriage...would make sense that sort of thing happening..and for that male passenger to be joining that journey at that time...or that could all just be a coincidence....that's the trouble..no evidence...of anything...just supposition....

The only other thing that's really suss is that there was a Mrs. Clara Louise Hartley who died in the San Francisco fire...the only odd thing about that is that she had the surname Johnson attached to her name...I wrote to the appropriate people but they couldn't help with any further info...I think from memory that fire was after 1907?????? Perhaps George had died pre 1907 (there is a possibility for 1899 in the Free BMD), she remarried but kept her former married name and just added the new one...and then they both perished in the fire..She could well have moved to the US to live..it wasn't uncommon for her to travel internationally...most peeps from those days hardly went anywhere, but she was used to it coming from the family she did and working & travelling with her father all those years...And..given her high profile in the industry it would have served her well to maintain her previous name..just tag the new one onto the end...stranger things have happened...

Honestly...talk about alien abductions!!!...I've been tearing my hair out with this for the last 7 years....she's the last missing link in the chain...it's so frustrating....never mind..I'll just have to keep hoping that something turns up..Thanks again for your help Dee.
Cheers
Helen

Hi Sadieh, in ancestry George died March 1899
Wharfedale,West Riding,West Yorkshire
age 46.
Still looking for anything on Clara.

kind regards, Lorraine in sunny Mackay QLD

Helen,

I wonder about this death?

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

Deaths Dec 1905 (>99%)
Hartley George Henry 48 Bradford 9b 13



Dee x

Hi Lorraine & Dee,

Apologies for the delay in replying...

Hi Lorraine, Melbourne calling...and...THE SUN IS OUT...finally!!!

The 1899 Wharfedle listing is the death I thought might be George, but have no way of confirming. I found that on Free BMD...it doesn't give much information though...

Dee, I missed that one!! Would the next step be to order death certificates for these two listings or is there any other way of checking them out beforehand?

Logic dictates that if he died in either of these two places then that's where Clara would be living at the time..I imagine Wharfedale was nowhere as large as Bradford at that time..hmmm..Any ideas as to where I should look to try and find her there at that time?

Lorraine, is there any other match up in Ancestry for him, or Clara, for any other event? Do you have access to the 1901c by any chance? May I trouble you to have a look at that for me please?

Dee, if he died in 1905, I imagine that unless he or they were out of the country at the time, oneof them at least should be on that census...is there any way of pinning down exactly where in Bradford he was living at the time of his death? Unless "Bradford" on that listing was actually Bradford proper. I know her father owned a house at 18 Spring Gardens in Bradford at the time of the wedding. That's the addy she put on her marriage cert...the house is still standing by the way..I found it on Google Earth..fancy that!!!

Thank you both so very much for lending a helping hand. I really appreciate it.

Hope to hear from you soon
Kind regards
Helen

Hi Helen,

the 1905 death maybe this chap;

1901 England Census about George H Hartley
Name: George H Hartley
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Emma Hartley
Gender: Male
Where born: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Bradford
Ecclesiastical parish: Bradford St Augustine
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Bradford
Sub-registration district: Bradford East
ED, institution, or vessel: 54
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 181
Household Members:
Name Age
George H Hartley 43
Emma Hartley 43
Edward Hartley 16
May Hartley 14
William H Hartley 13

1891 England Census about George Henry Hartley
Name: George Henry Hartley
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Emma Hartley
Gender: Male
Where born: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Bradford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chrysostom
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Bradford
Sub-registration district: Bradford East End
ED, institution, or vessel: 56
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Henry Hartley 33
Emma Hartley 33
Edward Hartley 6
May Hartley 4
William Henry Hartley 3
Samuel Holdsworth


So back to the drawing board!!


Dee x

Hi Dee.

No, that's not him I'm afraid. Way back in the early research days he caused me no end of trouble. I had found 2 passenger listings, (one of which was critical in terms of 1907 travel for Clara's father's funeral) which showed a Mr & Mrs Hartley and 3 female children, initials and ages only...it was a nuisance because 2 of the 3 girls were born before their marriage..She came from a very high profile family and there would not have been any living in sin or children out of wedlock going on...

I had wondered if George had been married before with a child then widowed.....and then...

I received a copy of Clara's marriage cert..

He's listed as a bachelor on the banns...I understand that even today, it's still very serious to lie on your banns.....not to mention..given the high profile & status of Clar'a's father, not only internationally, but in Bradford it'self (Nicholson Organs), I doubt George would have gotten away with such a whopper..a bit hard to hide a young child I'd imagine.

So...sad to say that George & Emily are not connected...but thank you so much for keeping the light burning in the window...

I'd still like to be able to confirm/refute that 1899 Wharfedale death? Are there any other resources available that might lead to finding out where that man lived, what his occupation was or who he was married to?

Helen XX