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Hi, I am trying to find my great grandmother. I have copies of her marriage certificates to Henry Wilson (1902) and Edward Gatland (1917). On both she is named Bessie Maria Spencer and her father is named as Thomas Spencer. I know she was a nurse/health visitor and have found a 1901 census entry for Maria Bessie Spencer listed as an asylum nurse so this may be her. I also have her death certificate (1955), which also has her name as Bessie Maria. However, I cannot find any birth records for either a Bessie or Maria or census records for 1881/1891 to give any clues as to the name of her mother.

Anybody have any clues?

When was she born roughly?

EDIT - this is obviously who you mean!

1901 England Census

Name: Maria Bessie Spencer
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Woking, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Coulsdon
Ecclesiastical parish: Coulsdon St John the Evangelist
County/Island: Surrey

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: London County Lunatic Asylum

Jan

What is her father's occupation? And who are the witnesses to the marriages please?
Jan

What is her age on the marriage certs?

Thanks for your responses, further details are as follows:-

First marriage - 17 April 1902
Location - The Register Office, Chelsea
Bride - Bessie Maria Spencer
Age - 24
Status - spinster
Profession - Asylum Nurse
Father - Thomas Spencer
Fathers's profession - Porter at Junior Army and Navy Stores

Groom - Henry Wilson
Age - 28
Status - Bachelor
Profession - Lunatic Attendant
Groom's father - Thomas Wilson
Groom's father's profession - horse dealer

Witnesses - A Hinton and Arthur F Coombes.

NB: I have just found an Arthur F Coombes on the 1901 census living in Paddington parish. His occupation is listed as Registrar of births & deaths, and Removal Officer (Poor Law). Could this link in with Bessie and Henry's occupation? No idea who A Hinton is though.

Second marriage - 10 June 1917
Location - The Parish Church, Beddington, Surrey
Bride - Bessie Maria Wilson
Age - 38
Status - widow
Profession - Munitions worker
Father - Thomas Spencer
Father's Profession - Caretaker

Groom - Edward Charles Gatland
Age - 43
Status - Widower
Profession - Munitions worker
Groom's father - John Gatland
Grooms Father's profession - Engine Driver

Witnesses - John Gatland and Maud Gatland (Edward's parents - he was an only child).

The dates on her marriage and death certificates would have placed her birth around 1878/79.

Thanks
Jackie

Have you found her in 1911 as i can't.

Maryb

Hi Mary

I have 1911 census of Henry and Maria Wilson. He is aged 37 and born Falkirk, Scotland. She is aged 32 and born Aldershot, Hampshire. The ages are correct, but without birth certificates cannot confirm birth locations.

Henry's occupation is noted at Night Porter for the Local Government Board.

They have two children:

Thomas Henry - born Sept 1902, baptised 18 July 1905.
On his baptism record the father's occupation is given as Night Porter, which ties in with the 1911 census.

Dorothy Nina - born JFM 1909

My mother remembers an Uncle Tom and Aunt Dorothy, so guess these records are correct. It still makes the search for the birth of my great grandmother tricky as it seems she still keeps changing from Bessie to Maria and back again - which is the right one? - still a mystery.

Have you tried this one?

Births Dec 1878 (>99%)
Spencer Maria Farnham 2a 103 Scan available - click to view

Thanks, for birth details - I hadn't seen this entry. Looking on the map of Hampshire, Farnham is not that far from Aldershot.

Just found an 1881 census entry for a Maria Spencer aged 2, born Aldershot. Her parents are listed as Thomas Spencer, a Prison Warder aged 32, born Ashbourne, Derbyshire and her mother is Annie, aged 29 born Puncknowle, Dorset.

Also discovered 1901 census entry for a Thomas Spencer who is 52 and born Ashbourne, Derbyshire. He is working as a Hall Porter in a Store, which could link in with Maria/Bessies 1902 marriage certificate with Henry Wilson. This Thomas is married to an Eliza, with children Lottie 13, Daisy 12 and Dorothy 6. Could it be that Thomas remarried? Maybe Annie died or they split up. More digging required I guess.

Jackie

1911 census
Thomas born 1848 Ashbourne a Hall porter in store.
Eliza 1857 married 24 years born Wimbledon.
Dorothy 1894 born London a hairdresser
Doris 1888 Woking.
Address 26e block
Peabody Buildings
Bedfordbury WC.

Thomas born 1848 Ashbourne in 1861.
Mum maria 1819 Ashbourne
her dad in law William 1796.

A tree on Ancestry has thomas William Spencer son of William 1823 and Maria Shaw 1823.
Thomas and Eliza had Alice Dorothy Spencer 1894.

William 1823 dad William 1806-1881 and Mary 1806.

This thomas William 1848 marries Eliza sarah Phipps who was born in wimbledon about 1852 and on 1881 census she is working in Metropolitan District asylum in London.

I found a thomas Spencer born 1848 in St martin Derbyshire he was a Soldier in Tower of london district,maybe that's the Aldershot connection.

I can't find any of them in 1891.

Maryb

Hi Mary

I’ve seen this 1911 census entry too. The original is a bit scruffy to say the least, with names duplicated. I guess they got confused when filling in the form.

The part that threw me was the number of children born to the marriage totalling 3 and the number of years married being 24. This would mean Thomas and Eliza married in 1887 – 9 years after Maria was born, so quite likely she had a different mother.

Strange that Eliza Phipps worked in the Metropolitan District Asylum, given that Maria/Bessie was an asylum nurse too.

I’ll have a look at William etc and see what transpires.

Jackie